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The MFGG Wiki, Attention: URL form has changed
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 Post subject: The MFGG Wiki
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:24 pm 
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Please note:
Due to the server change, the Wiki links have a different structure now, so any links in this topic that go like
Code:
wiki.mfgg.net/wiki/index.php/<Page>
do not work anymore.
Instead, use
Code:
wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=<Page>
Thanks,
Guinea


----------------------------------------------------
The Wiki is now hosted at

http://wiki.mfgg.net

The wiki covers various things at the moment, many of which (fads, events, big chunks of the members category) will probably go at some point (Minus World apparently wants their own, so yeah). Use it as you see fit (assuming it is related to MFGG), whether that be pages on fangames, tools, code/languages or whatever. I'd personally like to see it become the resource for "written" tutorials and guides, because packing text files into zips for the main site is a bit cumbersome and very 1990s-esque.

Your friendly neighbourhood sysops are me and Joey but mostly Joey. You can AIM him on "th3j03y" and he'll solve problems.

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 Post subject: Re: The MFGG Wiki
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:33 pm 
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I really don't think we need to delete any of the articles, it contains pretty much the history of mfgg and it's a great thing to use and check out some of the odd stuff thats happened, and all sorts of members that have come around and gone.

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 Post subject: Re: The MFGG Wiki
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:09 pm 
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I really don't want any of the articles do be deleted either. Moved to some other wiki, sure, but not deleted.

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 Post subject: Re: The MFGG Wiki
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:33 pm 
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First, it's great that the Wiki has a Web address that people are likely to find and remember. Putting a link to it on the main site would be equally splendid.

I strongly agree with Jazz. I don't think any of the articles (except those that contain no content) should be deleted, although we should probably merge most of the fads into the pages of the members who started them. The Wiki will need a lot of renovation in the days and weeks to come, so I encourage everyone to join in on this.

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 Post subject: Re: The MFGG Wiki
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:46 am 
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grifr
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Helloooo.

Yeah, nice url, and once we maybe get a Minus World wiki up (or never) we can move articles unrelated to fangaming over there if you'd like.

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 Post subject: Re: The MFGG Wiki
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:34 pm 
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Is it me, or has General just gone and removed his name from any pages that mention him?

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 Post subject: Re: The MFGG Wiki
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:05 pm 
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Mason wrote:
VinnyVideo wrote:
Is it me, or has General just gone and removed his name from any pages that mention him?

If this is true IP ban him plz, Joey.

the squirrel got that covered but I'll revert all the articles

edit: hell that was easy

hey squirrel can you add to the op that my AIM name is "th3j03y" and that it would be best to IM me there if there are any issues and PMing me here would probably get a very, very delayed response?

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 Post subject: Re: The MFGG Wiki
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:24 pm 
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I can indeed.

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 Post subject: Re: The MFGG Wiki
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:02 am 
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I find the new link address easier to remember but when I try to make my own page about my profile, I can't understand how to make my profile pic and my Philippine flag appear. Help!

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Minus World Secret Santa Gifts: 2011- Dane
MFGG Secret Santa Gifts: 2012- McKnackus I ~ 2015-LuNiney ~ 2016-Mors 1 2

Refs drawn/sprited by other MFGG Members:
Doc ~ DragezeeY ~ Friendly Dictator ~ Mit ~ Wiwa
 
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 Post subject: Re: The MFGG Wiki
PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:33 pm 
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I've been doing a lot of stuff on the Wiki lately. I just created pages for the 2009 NCFC and 2010 NCFC. I've done the list of game booths, but there's little else on those articles. Some other people may be able to expand them.

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 Post subject: Re: The MFGG Wiki
PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:59 pm 
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Needs more Custom Title Request forum.
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oh hey, BTW, thanks for making the WiTT article - totally forgot about making an article for it


also thanks for making those NCFC articles, the page felt empty without the 2 years of them

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 Post subject: Re: The MFGG Wiki
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:18 am 
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You're welcome. My newly-added NCFC 09/10 and WiTT articles could definitely be improved upon, but at least it's a start.

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 Post subject: Re: The MFGG Wiki
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:26 pm 
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http://wiki.mfgg.net/wiki/index.php/Special:UnusedFiles

Somebody ought to clean these out eh?

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 Post subject: Re: The MFGG Wiki
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:06 pm 
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If this Wiki really ends up getting split, I'd like to see a plan about how all the details are going to get worked out. If you actually use and edit the Wiki, you'll realize it's a complex, messy place with a lot of details to work out.

Someone should create a template for games with dead download links. Some broken links are inevitable - for example, for related Web sites that no longer exist - but if there's a link to a game that's not posted on the main site and can't be downloaded from an off-site source, that's really frustrating, and it needs to be noted so someone can possibly supply a working link.

Also, if the Wiki gets split (or maybe even if it doesn't), we're going to need a "Former Member" or "Ex-Member" group for people who aren't part of New MFGG but who have made important contributions to MFGG.

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 Post subject: Re: The MFGG Wiki
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:57 pm 
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Over half the NCFC games don't have anything in them.

 
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 Post subject: Re: The MFGG Wiki
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:02 pm 
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I'm actually contemplating whether getting rid of all the member pages, fads and events would be worth doing. I have no intention of waiting for Minus World to slowly copy stuff over because if they were desperate it would have been done by now, and as it stands this wiki is clogged up with people just talking about themselves. It's almost like a mini facebook and as great as some of these guys are, they've no intention of returning and many of them haven't really contributed anything at all to MFGG.

I figure all this sort of stuff would be better suited to some sort of forum/site mod in which the user has x amount of space in which to describe themselves and what they've done. And then they'd be secure from vandalism or whatever too.

Yes we all like team wars but it's completely irrelevant to everyone these days. I took part and I don't care. It doesn't really matter all that much to me that we had some silly forums once upon a time five years ago either, so to have it eternally documented for all the newbies to learn from seems really stupid. I mean it's not like it can be repeated, or if the majority of people active then are active now. It's better off left spread across forum archives. Some of these wiki pages are asking for people to update them with content that's three or four years old - it's not going to happen.


My vision for the wiki, despite it being hard to get people on board with this idea, is that it's a big fat reference place, hosting everything useful to MFGG that isn't appropriate for the main site or forums. Big detailed guides about various fangame-related or programming-related things. I'd like to hope that maybe when MFGG3 rolls around that can take care of extensive fangame documentation (so for example, most of the information here would end up here).

I think one of its rolls should be to educate. You go there if you need to look up something meaningful, but aren't presented with complicated walls of text, wikipedia style, or vague comments on half-assed game maker message boards who haven't got any idea of what they're actually talking about

example

I, for some reason, hunt out a copy of Multimedia Fusion Express, and I have no skill in using it whatsoever. The actual manuals are non-existent or crap.

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"eep what is this. What does that button labeled "P" do? What's a .cca file? How do I get things to move? Why am I using MMFE?"

and you'd travel to the wiki for answers to these basic questions. Though granted there's not a huge amount of demand for MMFE... but there is for things like Game Maker or MMF2 or whatever. I don't see much point in hanging on to things that nobody will be able to relate to in five to ten years time, like out of date fads or out of date members.

what this would require, however, is people who are willing to devote the time and effort into writing lots and lots of stuff. Make templates, organise things, and maintain the wiki. And I admit, at the moment I'm not one of those guys. I work at Sega Retro because I know a lot about Sega, and there's a lot of stuff out there that's easy to bring together under one roof. This wiki is a bit more tricky, because there really isn't anything out there for fangamers in terms of proper resources. There's stuff for "real" programming languages, but it's of mixed quality and not always relevant. Everything will need doing from scratch. But we'd be pioneers if it were done.


but that's what I think.

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 Post subject: Re: The MFGG Wiki
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:13 pm 
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if you wanted a guide for a program or a game you would go online and find a guide, not look on mfggwiki

there is no point to an mfggwiki that isn't a wiki about mfgg

and you are not pioneers because there are plenty of wiki's for all of this **** already - the only thing you would be doing is taking a lot of things that were already written and placing them all on one wiki that nobody who needed these guides would ever see

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 Post subject: Re: The MFGG Wiki
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:20 pm 
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ahuei123456 wrote:
Over half the NCFC games don't have anything in them.

This is more because nobody's bothering to write anything about the games - which brings me to another point explaining the relative failure of MFGGWiki:

If you look on Wikipedia, you will notice that they have a Manual of Style - it's a guideline for editors to follow a certain quality of writing so that the articles aren't absolutely ridiculous to read.

Wikipedia also naturally has an absolutely *gigantic* userbase, so there are likely to be more individuals who both have the ability to write and the confidence and ambition to do so.



MFGGWiki, especially now while MFGG has such low forum/wiki traffic, has neither a manual of style nor a large base of good writers (or any writers, even) - which is why many of the articles lay bare, and those that are filled out are rather sloppy.

Really, the wiki will be able to repair itself naturally as more members join and edit it, particularly if they are decent writers.

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 Post subject: Re: The MFGG Wiki
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:29 pm 
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I know I've said this before, but if you wanted to increase traffic for the MFGG Wiki, having a link on the MFGG main site would help immensely. You'd go from two or threee people actively contributing to dozens in a matter of days, I'm sure.

In some ways I'm inclined to disagree with Black Squirrel in that I'd hate to see the Wiki get completely dismantled - it would be sad to see all the MFGGer pages get wiped and be stuck only with stubs of tutorials Xgoff started years ago. On the other hand, after spending a bunch of hours doing stuff on the Wiki in this past week, I'm beginning to realize that it might be a lot easier to start over completely - archive the old Wiki and start a new one, and from there we'd decide what to put in, instead of spending inestimable hours fixing up the existing one and researching members who left years ago. MW could then keep the old MFGG fads, events, and such, or more likely start a fresh wiki of their own with things relevant to their current memberbase.

As for the tutorials, in their current state most of them are pretty useless. What I'd like to see are articles that teach the very basics of GM and Click products - and touch on more advanced languages if we can find people to contribute to them - and provide ample links to quality tutorials from other places. More pages that supply quality tips on level design - like an expanded version of some of the old stickied topics in Development Discussion - would also be extremely helpful to beginning fangame/indie developers.

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 Post subject: Re: The MFGG Wiki
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:09 am 
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Fibriel wrote:
there is no point to an mfggwiki that isn't a wiki about mfgg

I disagree - there's no point in a wiki that documents old versions of MFGG. If that's its main aim it is a useless resource. Nobody needs to know the details of old forum structures or fads nobody remembers or members who posted twice three years ago. That was kinda what it used to do, but the same could be said for MFGG's forums encouraging spam. Times change. This forum isn't *just* about MFGG and the main site isn't either - it's about the game development process, and there's no harm in the wiki being the same.

Also the "these things already exist" logic doesn't really work for wikis. I mean look at Wikipedia - it pretty much bars anyone from doing original research thanks to its demand for citations (or at least that's what it pretends to do). It brings information from all over the net into one place, and I propose that MFGG Wiki should do the same (and have original stuff, since there really isn't all that much out there when it comes to the likes of clickteam products and Game Maker). Perhaps not many people visit now, but the idea is that if you build it up, people will come.

and it's not all about traffic. But even if it was, what would a million new users do with this?


and yes it does need a manual of style but I'm not overly inspired to write one right now. Something about being easy on the eye and not too technical (because if you start using technical terms to describe technical terms all it does is confuse the younglings), third person, present tense where appicable, == double equal subtitles ==, no walls of text and whatever.

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