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 Post subject: Re: Site Talkback and Suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:32 am 
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VinnyVideo,

I have a lot of respect and admiration for you and how you and your team've handled MFGG over the past few years. It's incredible to me how MFGG can keep activity flowing, not only with all the newer and shinier methods of communicating out there but also in a way where it avoids the mistakes of the past and doesn't become the hectic MFGG it used to be.

I fully agree that how Minus World works now wouldn't make sense for MFGG. Minus World's current feature-set was built by and for the community, through the community. The most important thing for Minus World's growth has been its community input and suggestions from the community. There was a dark period where suggestions weren't being fulfilled very often, and even just one year ago Minus World was on death row. Through the work of myself and many others we were able to live the legend of Phoenix, Arizona and rise out of the ashes using the creativity and input of anyone willing to contribute.

That's not to say the ideas on Minus World are (c) Minus World 2016-2017 All Rights Reserved, Do Not Distribute. We've taken inspiration from all over, from anywhere like Neopets or Gaia Online to popular boards like Facepunch or even things from Facebook. But what I do mean to say is I think the channels for making suggestions should be more open to give more opportunity for people to share their ideas and make them more noticeable. Rather than a simple Suggestions/Feedback thread, this should evolve into a Suggestions Forum. Although Minus World has evolved beyond the Suggestion Forum, it's run was fantastic and in the end brought us to where we are today. I think every forum could use one or something like it if handled correctly. I think that's the biggest step to enhancing the forum; although I'm sure the current strategy of doing things behind closed doors or not-so-publicly has its merits, I believe the path forward is paved with transparency- that doesn't mean that private discussions can't or shouldn't happen though- but finding the right balance is key.

I'm willing to help out in any way I can to make the MFGG forums the best place to be. Aside from the suggestions forum, here are some feature ideas that I think the MFGG forums could use:

Alert & Mentioning System - Most social sites have a method for calling attention to a specific user, with an @username kind of thing. I feel like these days this kind of thing is essential. However, the only alert type thing that exists currently is for Personal Messages only; aside from PMs and usernames there's all kinds of potential alerts that could be sent out such as competitions, award threads, important updates to the rules, etc. I feel like it's a HUGE step forward to have this.

Mobile Layout - Mobile devices are HUGE in usage nowadays, and it's just foolish to alienate so many potential users. Although I'm sure this is already on your list of things to do, I need to emphasize how important it is to have.

Reactions - As you know I've been an advocate for these since back when JaxBoards was actively being developed, and it goes even further back than that. I think it's a great way for people to give simple feedback on posts without having to make a post. While we all may want more great posts, more engagement is good too and gets people to stick around more (and hopefully save their Post Energy for even better posts down the line). I know this kind of thing can be controversial, but it may be possible to simply disable the feature per-post in the Post Options checkbox and set the default in your user settings. I think that'd balance out concerns. Just because we want to move forward doesn't mean we should leave those with concerns in the dust. Reactions give an additional feel of user moderation- which I'll get into later.

Points - "Forum currency", or EX as we call it on Minus World sounds pretty silly, but it can lead to a fun way to tally up all the ways people interact with the community and the content you share. For example, reactions could give the author of the post being reacted to some points so that reactions always feel positive. Competitions could have a bit more oomph to them when there's a prize in points in addition to the badges.

User Moderation - My perspective is there's two kinds of moderation that happen. The kind from the official staff, and the kind from the community. I think both are important for a healthy community, and if you have an active community then both are probably happening whether you like it or not. Threads staying active and sticking around is a form of the community moderating itself and saying that this is the content they'd like to see. I don't think Minus World has capitalized on this concept too much, but I think it's something MFGG should look into. Sites like Stack Overflow have a great way of utilizing more extreme forms of user moderation to curate the best answers, but there's plenty of inspiration all over. Perhaps points could be utilized somehow for this?

Spells - To start, I don't think the same kinds of spells that exist on Minus World would be good for MFGG. Minus World spells are inspired largely by the days of MFGG allowing HTML and people doing wacky things to threads and posts. It's pretty silly and fun, but on a more serious board obviously turning a post upside-down or keeping people from scrolling away from it isn't the best idea. However, there's still some fun stuff that can be done! I think coming up with ideas to allow people to say "I really like this post" would be the way to go. This definitely can fall into User Moderation as well, but since it's one of the more original ideas on Minus World I figured it was worthy of its own suggestion.

WYSIWYG editor - Most of us are fine with BBcode- I'd much rather edit the code of a post than a WYSIWYG editor, but for new users WYSIWYG is an expectation and it sure makes things easier. I'm sure there are some out there that can handle bbcode- worth looking into for sure.

Tags - Tagging threads or posts so they can be found later would be very helpful! Especially for resources.

More Poll Voting Styles - One idea I like is the ability to rate each option rather than vote for the one you like best. I'm sure there are other even more creative and fun ways to do polls too though!

Sign in/up with X - Why force people to create new accounts? Just let them sign in with Google, Facebook, or whatever else. Less passwords for them to keep track of and makes the barrier of entry a lot smaller

oEmbed Links - You know how Facebook, et al. pull in data from a site when you copy a link? That's called OEmbed and it makes sharing content way easier. This would be a great way to make it easier for people to share links

Fangame Cards - I'm thinking of cards like Material Design uses. See here for an example. Fangame card could be an image, the title, and a short description, and these could display on people's profiles as to what games they're working on or involved in in some way. It'd be a great way to show off fan games in an appealing and potentially fun way.

Other Profile Improvements - The old forum style of generic bland profiles for everyone who ever uses a forum software has never been great. Profiles should reflect the kind of information MFGG members are all about. Chat protocols or game codes don't really make all that much sense as those make more sense to be personally given out to the people you want to share them with- who goes around adding random people? And if you do, a freeform profile field would be fine for filling in those fields- no need to have custom specific fields for it. Another area profiles should have is a badge listing, with a description of why someone earned a badge and a link to a relevant thread- of course some information might be lost since badges have been carried over for a very long time now but no reason to not try and make newer information that we do have as accurate as possible. I'm sure people can think of other things they've always wanted to see in profiles and maybe things that are in profiles that aren't too useful.

Hope these help. Even if they aren't super useful my opinion on suggestions has been that even rotten ones may sprout a creative spark for a good idea, so it's worth throwing everything out there in a brainstorm. If MFGG wants any assistance bringing new ideas into the forum I'm sure myself and other Minus World Creative Team members would be eager to help.

All the best,

Mario

PS. Great work with the All That! theme.

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 Post subject: Re: Site Talkback and Suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:43 am 
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PS. Great work with the All That! theme.

I know this is sarcasm but I made that so thanks I guess?

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 Post subject: Re: Site Talkback and Suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:46 am 
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Not sarcastic, it's a really fun idea and I love wacky forum themes

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 Post subject: Re: Site Talkback and Suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:02 am 
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I completly agree, all these ideas would get especially new members to interact more with the community which should always be a huge goal. And it would also make participating more interesting, since you feel rewarded for doing something good and who doesnt want to feel rewarded?

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 Post subject: Re: Site Talkback and Suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:03 am 
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Mario,

Thanks for visiting our humble forum! I hope this means no more C&Ds.

I appreciate all of the ideas you've given us as well, they're very inspiring. We'll be taking each one into consideration. Idk if you're aware, but we're in the process of developing an all-new software for the mainsite and forums, which includes merging accounts.

My two cents so far on your ideas:

  • Notification System: Great idea. I was going to implement this even if for no other reason than MFGG's mainsite already kinda-sorta has one. I'm inspired to make it more robust than I was before, though. The @username thing was an idea I definitely had going through my head.
  • Mobile Layout: Yes, MFGGG3 is definitely going to be as mobile-friendly as possible!
  • Reactions: Post-liking is a feature that we've more or less agreed upon. I wasn't big on including reactions, but it seems to be pretty successful on MW. It's being considered :)
  • Points/Currency: Another idea I've never been fond of, but it works on MW. The users also seem to like the idea, so we'll see. We've been throwing around a joke idea about Tusk Bucks for a while now.
  • User Moderation: Yeah this is something that kinda goes on already. We'll be scaling back our staff moderation some. Also, user events and etc are something I'd like to see us focus on more.
  • Spells: Kind of an unpopular idea, even with MW overlap users. Not that it doesn't work on MW, but like you said, it isn't the best idea for us.
  • WYSIWYG: I despise these things lmao. I had previously stated that MFGG3 would not have one. But you're right; it makes it easier for newer users. This is now on the consideration table as an optional feature.
  • Tags: Great idea. I noticed this on MW and I like it a lot.
  • Poll Voting Styles: We'll give it some thought. I'm not sure there's a whole lot you can do in this department, though
  • Social Media Signup: Confirmed :)
  • OEmbed: Wow I like this a lot too. I'll try to do this.
  • Fangame Cards: Yes
  • Other Profile Improvements: We'll also look into this. I agree that typical profiles are pretty bland.

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 Post subject: Re: Site Talkback and Suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:21 am 
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Mit wrote:
i'm finally home and at a computer so now i can share my extensive thoughts on the matter.

MFGG needs restructuring. not to cater to oldbies. but we need to teach new users how to make things and encourage them to do it well. we need to engage new users to keep them hooked beyond just having MFGG be a place to share work and nothing more.

it's very safe to say that a majority of newbies are young. and even if they aren't mostly young then a very large majority of main site users are and we need these people to be committed and active content creators on the site. these people are the future not only of MFGG but of fangaming in general and we need to shift our focuses to educating and encouraging with tutorials and resources so they can easily get into the different fields.

here's my proposal. i'm going to make it as detailed as i can hope to make it and elaborate as much as possible. most of these ideas i've run past people both newbies and oldbies and for the most part they seemed alright with it.

the biggest change: make MFGG an interactive forum.

what do i mean by this? we add a "currency". for the sake of consistency it could just be tusk bucks, and they are earned whenever you do something in the community. when you post, you earn a few bucks. when you win a competition, you earn a good score of tusk bucks relative to your placing. this encourages being active in the community by incentivizing activity in a way that is easy to understand and fun.

how do you earn tusk bucks?
as previously stated you earn tusk bucks automatically when you engage in the community. you're rewarded for making threads, posting, winning competitions, and more- including new features i'd like to propose.

the two major features are liking posts and reacting to posts. these are two things that are on many, many other boards and it's about time MFGG got something like this. liking posts is self explanatory- you like a post, you hit the button. this rewards the original poster with more tusk bucks for making good posts with good content, whether it be funny, good art, great music, or an interesting tidbit.

reacting to posts is something that's seen more on social media. personally i think it should cost a very low but understandable amount of tusk bucks to react. like one tusk buck is fine. this allows people to interact with posts without having to make extra posts that are seen as personal attacks on the poster, while also rewarding the original poster with tusk bucks whether the reaction be positive or negative. i understand this could be easily abused, which is why i set forth the "price" of reacting. this is only one option however, another option is to limit the amount of reactions one member can place on a post at a time. 2 or 3 sounds reasonable enough.

of course, winning competitions and doing well is even further incentivizing by earning more tusk bucks depending on how high you rank. don't do so hot this time? don't sweat it, you still made some bank just by entering and there's always next time.

we could even have forum events like tusk bucks lottery, saltybet streams, and E3 bingo to allow the userbase to engage eachother in fun ways.

this all sounds a lot like new minus world- that's because what new minus world is doing works. that being said, i do not think we need spells on this board. that would definitely be abused and either way i have a more fitting idea for what tusk bucks can be redeemed for.

what would tusk bucks do?

tusk bucks allow you to buy stuff to deck out your profile- things like avatar items you can scale and move to your liking and custom member bars are just the tip of the iceberg. you can also donate tusk bucks as well as items you get to other members should you feel generous enough to do so. it might also be fun to give everyone free items on certain special days, like the member's birthday or christmas.

it might also be fun to have a custom smiley toolkit- you can buy extra smilies to use (it would also be nice if smilies used a higher quality image file like SVG which would allow them to be scalable- this would also come with a smiley revamp of hand drawn smilies, i could sketch them if need be but i'm no good at making SVGs) and put in a "smiley loadout" so you can only choose to have so many smilies active at a time.

we could also open up a request board. it could cost a few tusk bucks to post, but it would fix any potential issues we may have now or in the future regarding requesting sprites or other assets. you have to spend your hard earned bucks to post, so that's enough of an incentive i feel to use it wisely.


it may or may not be smart to open a chatbox during important livestreams such as E3, nintendo directs, and NCFC. we could even have bingos for each, which would be especially fun for NCFC as it would allow fangame devs to put their games in the spotlight as it would be at E3 and hide all sorts of new secrets and information for their NCFC booths.


to sum it up- this place needs to be more engaging. literally. forums as they are have been rendered completely outdated by social media so things need to change. we need to focus on newbies and teach them how to make games. it feels as though fangame output has been at an all time low lately. this is because so many new users are joining without the tools and resources available to learn how. if we can engage the new community with fun activities and things to do to get them to stick around, as well as provide the resources to actively teach and explore what can be done in fangames from a technical and creative standpoint, then MFGG has a bright future. it may sound surprising coming from me, but oldbies and "what works" needs to be thrown out in favor of something new, fresh, and engaging.


Hey in case anyone wants to visit a forum that already has literally all of these features, it's called Minus World. Scorned and ignored, we rose from the ashes to reign supreme.

Minus World features include:
  • EXperience system with 100 levels, and EX gained through interacting with the forum
  • Good Sh*ts (likes) and reactions on every post, including an unprecedented number of custom-drawn SVG vector emojis
  • A Spellbook full of Spells you can use to influence others' posts - three alignments, Sweet, Salty, and Pepperoni
  • Dozens of Items, from consumables you can use to power yourself up temporarily, to Gear you can attach to your avatar (scaling and rotating both fully supported)
  • Boss Battles for special events, in which users must band together to use Attack Spells to deplete a boss' HP. Once the boss is perma'd a leaderboard is created and the top 3 contributors are awarded badges
  • We don't really try to prevent dupe accounts, and in fact we're planning on a system to integrate dupes as a forum feature
  • The most lax atmosphere, administration, and moderation you've ever seen. When drama occurs it's usually ironic.
  • Embracing MFGG culture instead of trying to shun fun
  • 18+ age recommendation (no swear filters, explicit content allowed when spoiler'd)

Minus World is what happens when a team of excluded individuals are tasked with creating a forum that is perfect for MFGG's once-great community. it's what happens when a staff truly cares and works toward crafting a perfect experience. It's what happens when the staff listens. Join now before this post gets deleted by some draconian mod!

EDIT: I just noticed that you did mention MW, but it's only fair to give people a link if you're gonna suggest making MFGG a copy of our site

 
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 Post subject: Re: Site Talkback and Suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:39 am 
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Spritey wrote:
Minus World is what happens when a team of excluded individuals are tasked with creating a forum that is perfect for MFGG's once-great community. it's what happens when a staff truly cares and works toward crafting a perfect experience. It's what happens when the staff listens. Join now before this post gets deleted by some draconian mod!

Welcome to MFGG/way to be a dick

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 Post subject: Re: Site Talkback and Suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:43 am 
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11 years god help me
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Disclaimer: I'm just trying to capitalize on drama and I have no idea what's actually going on here

 
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 Post subject: Re: Site Talkback and Suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:47 am 
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Spritey wrote:
Disclaimer: I'm just trying to capitalize on drama and I have no idea what's actually going on here

lmao ok

well, WElcome To Mfgg anyway

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 Post subject: Re: Site Talkback and Suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:48 am 
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11 years god help me
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I joined in 2005 but thanks anyway :D

 
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 Post subject: Re: Site Talkback and Suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:53 am 
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Spritey wrote:
I joined in 2005 but thanks anyway :D

12 years? god help you :/

Back on topic: I'd like to hear what the users think about some of these ideas, primarily currency.

If we did do Tusk Bucks, what kinds of things should it be spendable on? Reacts/likes, possibly fangame DLC?

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 Post subject: Re: Site Talkback and Suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:05 pm 
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I'm gonna make the case right now that charging for reactions would be a mistake. On MW we've noticed reactions really have the potential to change the way discussions work - they give people the power to express themselves without typing anything, which is an enviable feature that shouldn't be limited (apart from limiting the number of reactions per post per user to 2, which is fair).

Fangame DLC is a great idea, and very fitting for MFGG.

Also I know people here have been apprehensive about Spells (and I wouldn't want you using the same name since that's kind of our thing) but like WTL said, purely-positive ways to say thanks, express satisfaction, or make a post more visible would be good to have.

 
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 Post subject: Re: Site Talkback and Suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Fangame DLC that uses a forum-based currency is a great way to dissuade any non-MFGGers from playing your game. If I went to the effort to make DLC for a game, I'd want everybody to be able to actually use it.

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 Post subject: Re: Site Talkback and Suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:26 pm 
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Trading assets or fangame DLC (which is kind of a silly idea already!) in exchange for [currency] is a terrible idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Site Talkback and Suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:51 pm 
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Huh? What? Huh?
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i'm sorry that my post looked like i was trying to rip off of minus world, but it's worth noting that most of the features i proposed weren't invented by minus world. they're all utilized together on minus world, and i won't deny that's a factor, but all of the ideas i think are the natural progression of forums based on what is happening with social media.

that being said i do not think MFGG needs to go so far as to carbon copy MW to the extent of having the same kind of "metagame". it's fun and all but it's without a doubt MW's thing and if just recommending ideas from MW causes this much of a spat (even if it's small) then might as well keep the sites different. you've gotta keep in mind that this would need to appeal to young children and even though it wouldn't be hard to understand, i think the shops, maybe a few post altering things, and some currency-related board events would be enough to work with.

on a semi-related note i forget why i suggested having reactions be paid. i think it was just to discourage slamming a post with negative reactions by putting a price tag on them but it might just be better to limit the amount you can put down, yea.

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 Post subject: Re: Site Talkback and Suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:53 pm 
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As someone who doesn't know what many of those things mean, I don't have much to say, but I feel MFGG's been running pretty swimmingly.
But yeah, the focus now on sites like Facebook and Twitter have been pushing the board thing (and things like AIM) to the wayside. I usually go with the flow for some things, but in this case, I've been attached...
And I never even knew Minus World was having a revamp.

 
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 Post subject: Re: Site Talkback and Suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:48 pm 
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I think we should go with Tusk Bucks if we use a currency. This is too good to not use.

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 Post subject: Re: Site Talkback and Suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:02 pm 
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I think just "Coins" means a lot more to the average person who'll visit here. Tusk Bucks are a barely known in-joke currency, whereas coins are universally understood in the Mario fandom and any new member will automatically know what it is.

It'd be like having a Zelda Fangaming board use Tooth Points instead of Rupees.

I do believe that if some of these features are implemented, go easy on the intricacies of them. Experience points, spells, levels, items.. it's a fangaming board not an RPG. A lot of the mentioned features are standard fare on a lot of boards now which is fine, but I don't think MFGG needs to go that deep. Add some stuff that makes being here fun without the need for a meta-game.

We don't really try to prevent dupe accounts, and in fact we're planning on a system to integrate dupes as a forum feature - I don't agree with this feature. I'd much rather see a system that allows users to change their own username on a timed basis or something.

The most lax atmosphere, administration, and moderation you've ever seen. When drama occurs it's usually ironic. - Doesn't really apply to all forums, especially as MW is a smaller, focused group of people who mostly knew each other from the start.

Embracing MFGG culture instead of trying to shun fun
- This is a bit of a sweeping viewpoint when it's not backed up by evidence

18+ age recommendation (no swear filters, explicit content allowed when spoiler'd) - Nope.


Last edited by Kritter on Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Site Talkback and Suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:09 pm 
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Kritter wrote:
I think just "Coins" means a lot more to the average person who'll visit here. Tusk Bucks are a barely known in-joke currency, whereas coins are universally understood in the Mario fandom and any new member will automatically know what it is.

It'd be like having a Zelda Fangaming board use Tooth Points instead of Rupees.

When you visit another country you don't say "what are pounds? what are yen? haha just say money :)"

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 Post subject: Re: Site Talkback and Suggestions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:15 pm 
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HylianDev wrote:
When you visit another country you don't say "what are pounds? what are yen? haha just say money :)"


When you visit another country you don't say "what are pounds? what are yen? haha I'll introduce my own currency instead, just to confuse the locals"

The Mario Universe already has an established currency.

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