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+--- Thread: Effective story delivery in a Mario game (/showthread.php?tid=1855)
Effective story delivery in a Mario game - Evil Yoshi Toes - 07-14-2019
What's your opinion on storytelling in Mario games? Here are my thoughts:
I want to talk first about Paper Mario. Story in the Paper Mario games is considered a very important element, hence the disappointment when it was announced that Sticker Star would not have a unique storyline. This was a core part of the Paper Mario fun, but, if you think about it, the first game doesn't stray far from the Mario formula at all. Bowser nabs Peach and Mario goes to save her. The Stars are an added plot element, but they mostly serve as an excuse to require Mario to travel to different levels. Still, the story is considered successful. It's not so much about complexity of the story, but how the story is delivered.
In Paper Mario, the story unfolds from two perspectives: we flip between Mario, who is on the battlefield, and Princess Peach, who is in the enemy base. Being able to take control of the Princess behind the scenes and get a taste of both Bowser's personality and the tension building up to the final battle from behind the enemy lines was very important in the story's delivery. I think people often undervalue the importance of those between-chapter segments. In the second game they become even more important, as Peach is now held in unfamiliar territory and everything we learn about Grodus and his wicked plans comes from her perspective. Not only does this teach us more about our nasty new foe, but it also builds that essential tension when Peach finds out Grodus's ultimate plans with her and she is caught before she gets to inform Mario (and the player). Imagine if those segments were cut. Just seeing the final boss without having had those segments to build up to it would be really out-of-nowhere and wouldn't make a lot of sense. Another element this adds is just simply being involved with the story's characters, rather than just having them wait for us at the end of the game. We actually get to see Grouds and see Peach to learn about their personalities and situations.
In Sunshine, Galaxy, and Odyssey we get something kind of similar, but not quite as intensive since the games aren't as text heavy. We don't actually get to see what's going on behind enemy lines (if we did it'd probably be quite boring anyway), but we do get to stay in touch with the main characters throughout the game.
In Sunshine, Peach is present until later on when she is taken. Bowser Junior eventually takes her to the park, where we get to see them again. Unfortunately this is where all that ends, as they fly off to the final area. We still do see Jr. every once in a while, but it's not that exciting since we just chase him around for a shine sprite.
Galaxy did this a little better, mostly due to the introduction of Rosalina. She is there the whole game and if you want to you can learn a lot about her. She's a constant character who is there to build story. We also don't forget about Peach and Bowser after the intro until the end of the game. We see them a couple of times throughout the story to remind us what our goal is and what is at stake.
Odyssey perfected this in terms of the 3D Mario games in my opinion. The storyline is constant; every world Mario travels to has been robbed by Bowser, so the characters are all conscious of the ongoing Bowser threat and there's always a bit of storyline present. On top of that, we see Bowser and Peach multiple times throughout the game, even seeing them evolve as we get closer to the wedding day. The story in this game is very minimal and quite formulaic, but the fact that it is constantly present in the game is what makes the delivery memorable.
Anyway, those are just my opinions on Mario storylines and how they can be effectively presented. I think it's a very interesting topic because, while we don't think of storyline when we think of Mario games, they do hold some considerable weight in making the games memorable. That's not to say they are necessary, but they do have an impact. What are your opinions on the subject?
RE: Effective story delivery in a Mario game - Yrr - 07-15-2019
i like when he saved the princess that one time
RE: Effective story delivery in a Mario game - GeneralGuy - 07-18-2019
Excellent analysis on the subject of storytelling. Paper Mario 64 has this very cozy atmosphere, and I feel that the plot was one of the many things contributing to it. It really does illustrate it's story from all angles, in a way that paints a clear picture of the world, it's lore and the characters. Story is definitely important with the often slower pace, character-orientated and turn-based gameplay of RPGs where stories are a pillar to provide a sense of progression and purpose.
In regards to 2D/3D Platformers, story isn't really necessary. Although it certainly helps. For example, if any of the NSMB games had a compelling story and more characterization, they'd be better. If Sticker Star had a more compelling story with more unique characterization, however, it'd be eons better. I really wanted to like Sticker Star, but the non-existent narrative and lack of distinct characters really puts a damper on things. The gameplay alterations are just as bad if not worse. I wish Intelligent Systems would just make a regular Paper Mario again.
RE: Effective story delivery in a Mario game - Yoshin - 07-18-2019
Effective story in Mario just makes me think of Super Paper Mario
That game was a rollercoaster in all the right ways.
RE: Effective story delivery in a Mario game - GeneralGuy - 07-18-2019
(07-18-2019, 08:14 PM)Yoshin Wrote: Effective story in Mario just makes me think of Super Paper Mario
That game was a rollercoaster in all the right ways.
SPM was the last good Paper Mario. Loved the story, and Count Bleck.
RE: Effective story delivery in a Mario game - Evil Yoshi Toes - 07-19-2019
I agree completely. Some people don't like the gameplay of Super Paper Mario, and I can understand that as its formula doesn't always work too well. The story, though, was delivered so effectively that I find myself enjoying the game almost as much as the first two. It has a lot of real emotion and development that I wouldn't even expect form a Mario RPG, and, while I don't love the way the characters of the new dimension look, all the character personalities are quite memorable even from common NPCs. That was sorely missing in Sticker Star and Color Splash.
In terms of a 2D game, I'd rather there be more story than the NSMB games just to keep things fresh, but the platforming fun is the heart of those games and I don't want blocks of text to get in the way of that. Something simple but unique works best, like how Super Mario World brought Mario and co. to a dinosaur island and Bowser got his cool clown helicopter. The world building can then happen inside the levels at a fast pace, through new items (Yoshi) and enemies (the dinosaur enemies). In the 3D games I'd expect world building to happen a little slower but not at the pace of an RPG, like how Sunshine built it through short cutscenes and optional dialogue with characters (Sunshine really did a great job at world building!), but it never felt like you were being taken away from the action for longer than you wanted to be. It also helped that Isle Delphino was a brand new setting.
RE: Effective story delivery in a Mario game - Arrietty - 07-20-2019
The story of SPM was rather great, but the execution of the gameplay and how it tries to mix in story *within* the gameplay was poorly done. I could write up a ton of issues I have with the game sometime in the future but one thing for certain: God were the pacing and flow terrible.
EDIT: Yeah, seconding Evil Yoshi Toes about text getting in the way of the platforming, which was exactly an issue of SPM. I think the best way to have story telling in a platformer Mario game is to have story being told via actions/visuals/environments than anything else. Anything to keep the pacing and flow going for players as usual (in other words, don't interrupt gameplay). Maybe cutscenes between worlds too? But not between most levels, overloading the amount of cutscenes in a simple game would be kinda obnoxious.
RE: Effective story delivery in a Mario game - Evil Yoshi Toes - 07-20-2019
I agree with you about SPM's story integration. I think a story heavy 2D platformer can work, but the short and linear structure of the levels didn't work well with it. You're going from point A to point B on a 2D plane, which encourages fast-paced run-and-jump gameplay. Had it been more like the first two games in the sense that you can explore the entire area for the entirety of the chapter it could have worked. More emphasis on exploration would have slowed the pace down, and finishing a level and seeing those story summaries in between would feel more rewarding because we actually accomplished something of note. The fragmented and fast-paced nature of each level did not mesh well with the story telling style. It's like playing through Super Mario World but with less precise physics and constant interruptions.
I still enjoy SPM for its writing, but I have a lot of issues with the gameplay so I could never consider it as good as the first two games.
EDIT: Actually, thinking back on the game I remember liking the mansion chapter the best. I think the reason is because they slowed down the pace a bit. Rather than being platforming segments where you jump on enemies and move forward there was some exploration and that part where you have to pay off your debt doing chores, both of which really slowed down the pacing and made the story integration feel more natural. I still don't like that the levels were fragmented, but it at least did a better job than the other chapters, minus the earlier parts of that chapter where you're on the way to the mansion.
RE: Effective story delivery in a Mario game - Toni - 07-20-2019
Ugh, Super Paper Mario. I so remember the chores you had to do. Not a fan.
In fact, those ungainly moments are some of the only things I remember from that game, as well as the odd graphical style of some of its worlds and characters. Which is odd, since I do remember having fun with the game... at least every once in a while. But if I try to actually recall specific elements from the game, I pretty much just remember examples of gamified boredom... and Mimi.
But the story... was pretty good, I think, even if it was not always easy to sympathize with some of the weird geometric shapes that were supposed to represent characters. Overall, SPM was just a bit too clumsy for me in it's execution.
The first two Paper Marios though... yeah, those were a good blend of story, characters and gameplay.
RE: Effective story delivery in a Mario game - Evil Yoshi Toes - 07-20-2019
Lol yeah the chores weren't fun to complete, but they at least did something to make the pacing a bit more suitable to the text heavy nature of the game which was something I liked about them. Actually doing them was a monotonous nightmare though. I did enjoy the dialogue and exploration it took to get the safe codes though, and I wish the game had more of that and slower paced events in general (preferably fun events, not jumping over a spark to hit a block over and over again) to complement the style of storytelling.
I guess my biggest issue with SPM's storytelling is that it expects you to care about a world that doesn't feel lived in. The levels in the game are not ecosystems that characters live in like they were in the first two games. At most you'll get a couple of houses in some level that you will pass by and never come back to, and probably not remember who lives in them. The story has you preventing the end of the world, but the game does little world building so its not as impactful as it should be. The hub was the most interesting area of the game because it felt like a place where people lived and you had time to get familiar with it, but as you mentioned the art was so weird that it was hard to care a lot about some NPCs.
RE: Effective story delivery in a Mario game - Kirby's Adventure - 07-20-2019
You know, oftentimes I wonder if there's actually been a player that's earned 10,000 rubies (or whatever the currency was) to pay Mimi.
RE: Effective story delivery in a Mario game - Cruise Elroy - 07-20-2019
As for storytelling in Mario as a whole I don't really tend to care that much about it unless it's an RPG game. I do however kinda miss the canon of how Bowser was a dark arts magician in the SMB1 days, and I honestly wish we got to see more of that instead of just him being a heavyweight
RE: Effective story delivery in a Mario game - Evil Yoshi Toes - 07-20-2019
Agreed. It'd be cool to see both Bowser and Peach with their magical abilities again. It's a small thing that makes the characters seem a lot more important, Bowser being a more dangerous foe and Peach being necessary to stopping his evil and saving the kingdom. It seems like they've moved all of Bowser's magical abilities to Kamek (or Kammy in PM) and Peach's only magical ability since after the first Paper Mario has been gracefully floating down from where she was imprisoned. It's fine this way too of course, it's just a different feel that's less classic fantasy and more cartoon silliness.