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+---- Thread: Influencing Mod Decisions [Lock Requested] (/showthread.php?tid=1976)
Influencing Mod Decisions [Lock Requested] - Pedigree - 08-04-2019
If you are on staff but do not have a moderation role (for example: you stepped down from admin to tech admin), then you should not be trying to influence moderation actions against members, moderation policies or be involved in moderation discussions.
If you'd like to be involved in moderator decisions, then apply for a position as a moderator like any other member when a spot is open.
Quote:Just want to say that only current mfgg staff should be involved in policy decisions and such. If you stepped down to tech admin, you definitely should stay out of such matters. Or at least be honest about how much you are involved.
With Vitiman posting new forum rules before he quit and Vinny's touch on many decisions, I can only guess that you are still involving all staff members in decisions, no matter what their roles are or where they are staffed.
And that simply should not be going forward.
RE: Influencing Mod Decisions - Mario - 08-04-2019
Is this really happening? Reminds me of the state of MFGG before the split- the former staff were constantly getting involved in staff channels to bother the current staff until they made the place unbearable for them. I hope we're not making the same mistakes again.
I think there is value in having members involved in the staff channels however- we should be transparent who is involved and offer some positions to community members- maybe hold an election or something similar. I'm not saying elect mods, just people to be involved w/ staff discussions to represent the community from the community side.
RE: Influencing Mod Decisions - Evil Yoshi Toes - 08-04-2019
I agree. It isn't fair for punishments to be made more extreme due to bad experiences ex-mods had with members. It's a common issue with certain members and it is preventable.
In the case of Vitiman acting as a mod, non-moderation staff should report issues they see to moderators rather than try to take on the role themselves. There should be more clear separation of roles in terms of what each role can and can't do.
RE: Influencing Mod Decisions - Mors - 08-04-2019
I don't think we should straight up ban the staff from giving their opinions on matters that are outside what their role covers. It's feedback after all. But I've been starting to see that happen more and more in the staff discord and yeah we should slow down on that probably. That being said I can't say I can agree with both examples you gave for this.
Like in the case of Vitiman I wouldn't say that it wasn't completely unrelated to what his role covered. The suggestions forum is moderated by the Site Developers after all, so it makes sense for him to get a say in matters involving there. But even then, he presented it as a suggestion to the rest of the staff. He didn't do that on his own, we gave him the go. In hindsight maybe we shouldn't have let him post the actual rule since that is outside what his role covers, but who is posting the rule doesn't really much difference does it?
As for Vinny, like come on. Just let him go. I don't get what's the obsession you guys have with hating Vinny. The dude left his Admin position and he very rarely pops up to give his opinion on matters and you guys are even complaining about that?
EDIT: Ok I should clarify my last point with Vinny, ever since he left his admin position he had little to no influence in admin related matters. His way of running MFGG is very different than ours anyway, so if he did have constant input in staff members we wouldn't be able to get anything done. No offense to Vinny btw, this is just what happens.
RE: Influencing Mod Decisions - Pedigree - 08-04-2019
Are the rare times that he pops up to give his opinion on banning a very specific member? Yes? Then calling him out on influencing decisions on this member isn't petty, it's addressing an issue that is STILL ONGOING even months after he left his admin post.
Also you shouldn't be giving non-mods the approval to post new rules, that much is blatantly obvious and I'm glad that you understand that now. Even if you don't think it matters who posts the rules for some reason???
RE: Influencing Mod Decisions - Evil Yoshi Toes - 08-04-2019
(08-04-2019, 01:35 PM)Mors Wrote: I don't think we should straight up ban the staff from giving their opinions on matters that are outside what their role covers. It's feedback afterall. But I've been starting to see that happen more and more in the staff discord and yeah we should slow down on that probably. That being said I can't say I can agree with both examples you gave for this.
Then they should do it in public like other members in my opinion. I don't feel right about having other staff dog-pile members in private and influence mod decision making, especially since the mods are the ones who get s*** when an unfair punishment is issued. Not trying to be rude to any of the other staff, I like them all a lot, but I think they should focus on their own roles and share their feedback on moderation publicly like everyone else. Advocating for a member to be banned is looked down upon when normal members do it, so why is it different for non-mod staff? They all have their roles and they are very important and I'm very grateful for what they do for the community, but banning members isn't part of their jobs.
RE: Influencing Mod Decisions - Pedigree - 08-04-2019
I agree with EYT. Non-mod staffers can give feedback like everyone else in the suggestions forum or feedback channel on discord.
They shouldn't have any more access or influence than a regular member on matters outside their jurisdiction.
RE: Influencing Mod Decisions - Mors - 08-04-2019
(08-04-2019, 01:43 PM)Pedigree Wrote: Are the rare times that he pops up to give his opinion on banning a very specific member? Yes? Then calling him out on influencing decisions on this member isn't petty, it's addressing an issue that is STILL ONGOING even months after he left his admin post.He had no influence in Stir's ban.
(08-04-2019, 01:43 PM)Pedigree Wrote: Even if you don't think it matters who posts the rules for some reason???Oh there I meant it as in the same role would be posted either way, I do agree that we shouldn't let non-mods to do that stuff for several obvious reasons. Sorry for sounding like I was contradicting myself there.
(08-04-2019, 01:45 PM)Evil Yoshi Toes Wrote: Then they should do it in public like other members in my opinion. I don't feel right about having other staff dog-pile members in private and influence mod decision making, especially since the mods are the ones who get s*** when an unfair punishment is issued. Not trying to be rude to any of the other staff, I like them all a lot, but I think they should focus on their own roles and share their feedback on moderation publicly like everyone else. Advocating for a member to be banned is looked down upon when normal members do it, so why is it different for non-mod staff? They all have their roles and they are very important and I'm very grateful for what they do for the community, but banning members isn't part of their jobs.I completely agree with this.
RE: Influencing Mod Decisions - Pedigree - 08-04-2019
(08-04-2019, 01:56 PM)Mors Wrote:(08-04-2019, 01:43 PM)Pedigree Wrote: Are the rare times that he pops up to give his opinion on banning a very specific member? Yes? Then calling him out on influencing decisions on this member isn't petty, it's addressing an issue that is STILL ONGOING even months after he left his admin post.He had no influence in Stir's ban.
You'll understand that I have no reason to believe you since I had access to staff chat and Vinny was always there to try to push for longer bans on Stir. I also have no reason to believe that he wouldn't continue to dogpile on him when you still allow just anybody on staff to voice concerns on these matters.
If he didn't get involved then cool, but my understanding is that non-mods were still involved so...
RE: Influencing Mod Decisions - Vert - 08-04-2019
(08-04-2019, 01:50 PM)Pedigree Wrote: You'll understand that I have no reason to believe you since I had access to staff chat and Vinny was always there to try to push for longer bans on Stir. I also have no reason to believe that he wouldn't continue to dogpile on him when you still allow just anybody on staff to voice concerns on these matters.I mean the fact of the matter is that Drei constantly pushes the staff and MFGG's rules, he admits as much himself, so it's not strange he'd get longer bans if he keeps on pushing. I don't think a ban was unwarranted considering the circumstances, and I'm pretty sure you can get any staff member to confirm that Vinny didn't have an influence on his recent ban. If he did, you would've known already.
RE: Influencing Mod Decisions - Mors - 08-04-2019
(08-04-2019, 01:59 PM)Pedigree Wrote: You'll understand that I have no reason to believe you since I had access to staff chat and Vinny was always there to try to push for longer bans on Stir. I also have no reason to believe that he wouldn't continue to dogpile on him when you still allow just anybody on staff to voice concerns on these matters.
I have no reason to lie about this dude, I like Vinny as a person and I respect him, but like we aren't super close buddies or anything, I just said that I disagreed with his moderation mentality lol.
Not gonna force you to believe me, but it's better to believe the word of another staff member than something with 0 proof.
EDIT:
(08-04-2019, 01:59 PM)Pedigree Wrote: If he didn't get involved then cool, but my understanding is that non-mods were still involved so...Which is something me and Evil Yoshi both condemned.
RE: Influencing Mod Decisions - Pedigree - 08-04-2019
(08-04-2019, 02:09 PM)Mors Wrote:(08-04-2019, 01:59 PM)Pedigree Wrote: If he didn't get involved then cool, but my understanding is that non-mods were still involved so...Which is something me and Evil Yoshi both condemned.
That's awesome, thanks.
RE: Influencing Mod Decisions - Syaxamaphone - 08-04-2019
Imo site staff should still be able to give feedback and like, do stuff. I dont think Viti was overreaching or anything, he just made a few bad calls. Even posting the new rule was w/e if staff agreed on it. It's a shame to see him just quit instead of own up to his mistakes and move forward. I think this is a common issue among a lot of ex-staff.
Also imo I trust Mors hes a good boy.
On Stir's ban I think a year is SUPER excessive though. Even taking previous infractions into account, it was a pretty tame signature.
RE: Influencing Mod Decisions - GeneralGuy - 08-04-2019
I think non-forum staff members should definitely be able to influence forum policies like normal members.
HOWEVER
The absolute most important thing with policies is what is being proposed, rather than who is is proposing it. I'd rather take good policy proposals from an ordinary member than bad policy proposals from the moderation/administration. You have to think about what is rational and will be healthy for the forum and community long-term.
RE: Influencing Mod Decisions - Arrietty - 08-05-2019
(08-04-2019, 05:24 PM)GeneralGuy Wrote: I think non-forum staff members should definitely be able to influence forum policies like normal members.
HOWEVER
The absolute most important thing with policies is what is being proposed, rather than who is is proposing it. I'd rather take good policy proposals from an ordinary member than bad policy proposals from the moderation/administration. You have to think about what is rational and will be healthy for the forum and community long-term.
This is actually a pretty good mindset. I agree wholeheartedly.
RE: Influencing Mod Decisions - Pedigree - 08-11-2019
I retract my opinion. Please lock. Thank you.
RE: Influencing Mod Decisions [Lock Requested] - Mors - 08-12-2019
Locked upon request.