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My Thoughts on the Wiki - Yoshin - 08-13-2019
I'm no longer a Sysop so my plans for the wiki won't happen, but I can share them for staff/members to discuss(please discuss).
It boils down to a list.
--Replace userpages
They are pretty useless. Why do we need a page for every user? Ideally either having normal style user: pages like almost every other wiki where they're not important or just integrate and use the forum/mainsite/lumasms accounts. As for staff, just have a "Staff" page that lists current and former staffers.
--Start from scratch and archive the current wiki.
Current wiki is a mess with too many standards that most pages don't even follow. A fresh start is really needed.
--Make the theme consistent with the mainsite and forums.
This was what was being worked on last, it should be simple enough honestly. The current white default mediawiki theme sucks and the theme of the old wiki sucked even more.
--Focus of the new wiki should be tutorials and documenting fangames/romhacks
Tutorial pages are pretty self explanatory, just tutorials in written form, with images when needed. As for documenting, my idea is it would be a place for developers to better explain their game/hack, with information to the side like release year, author, version, etc. One could also have links to the source code if they so please.
--Make the wiki mobile friendly
More people are on an Android device then on a computer, and the wiki is horrible on those. This should be the main priority, as most of the traffic comes from them wiki.
As for community stuff, that can stay off the wiki. At best the "history of mfgg" and similar technical pages with some community are all we need.
RE: My Thoughts on the Wiki - Pedigree - 08-14-2019
While we're at it can we discuss how General is trying to force ban info onto user pages?
https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=SonicProject&diff=51494&oldid=51486
Bans have never been "widely documented" on wiki except for members putting them on their own page for attention.
To suggest that he has to keep the ban on my page or else the wiki will fade into obscurity is laughable.
People don't need to know that I requested a permaban a decade ago, that's between me and staff. All you're trying to preserve is the drama.
If I can't control what information is put out about me, then I would like my page deleted. Thanks.
I agree with all of your proposals, Yoshin.
RE: My Thoughts on the Wiki - Syaxamaphone - 08-14-2019
Regardless of your opinion on whether or not we should keep track of bans, I don't think ANYONE should be adding information against the will of the user in question. If Ped doesn't want his old ban brought up on the wiki, then it should be respected.
RE: My Thoughts on the Wiki - Arrietty - 08-14-2019
(08-14-2019, 02:54 AM)Syaxamaphone Wrote: Regardless of your opinion on whether or not we should keep track of bans, I don't think ANYONE should be adding information against the will of the user in question. If Ped doesn't want his old ban brought up on the wiki, then it should be respected.
Absolutely agree. It's a bit weird seeing that without anyone coming to the person they're writing about. Feels kind of invasive and rude, no matter how well intended.
And generally speaking, so many of the wiki pages are just very poorly written and embarassing. As the OP has said, standards are very much all over the place. I think we need a really good example for a user page, one that doesn't look like it's written by 20 different people and actually doesn't contain awkward information or subjective pieces that comes across as objective and all of that just makes you ask "why?".
On that note of awkward information:
"On Sep 13 2006, 04:24 AM"
This is a real example and it is a bit awkward to see an exact timestamp posted on it. It's worded funny for what it is and it's just needless bloat. The date, sure, but the timestamp? Um er okay?
Lastly, one thing I wanna add that hasn't been brought up is the size of the main bio template.
![[Image: RsbtxOH.png]](https://i.imgur.com/RsbtxOH.png)
All of the information is scrunched in because it's not wide enough. I take it this was just designed for smaller resolutions from back in the day. So I also agree a redesign for the template is needed. Because as is, this is a bit unreadable and messy.
The only thing I outright disagree about with the OP is the idea of keeping the community stuff off the wiki. I think it's fun reading up the history of MFGG's community, especially when the community itself is a huge part of MFGG's identity, or at least was for a time.
RE: My Thoughts on the Wiki - Mario - 08-14-2019
User pages need to go. Pages describing events and such are fine.
RE: My Thoughts on the Wiki - Clobbah - 08-14-2019
I personally am against deleting the wiki and starting anew. as we have a lot of information already on there that can be added to.
I think we could just make user pages very basic instead, just showing the first paragraph of info, the info box with the user’s profile picture, their works on MFGG, and links. That’s the beat way to keep user pages while avoiding drama.
So yeah, those are my thoughts.
RE: My Thoughts on the Wiki - Hyper - 08-14-2019
As a Wiki SysOp and I have went over with some people over these. Here are my thoughts:
Replace userpages
Userpage is indeed useless. I think the best approach with userpage is to only limit: join date, staff promotions/retirement (if the user is/was a staff), and list of project they worked on.
Any other details like user's community interactions, drama, trivia, OC/ref, and others should be banned.
Start from scratch and archive the current wiki.
I initially wanted to go on this route. But after some insights and some staff mentioned that the current wiki do gain a lot of traffic. I believe that it would be best to keep the current Wiki but do a mass cleanup effort.
Make the theme consistent with the mainsite and forums.
I can definitely look into this later on when I get more free times. In addition to that, I'm considering to return as a developer when I straightened my life together.
Focus of the new wiki should be tutorials and documenting fangames/romhacks
That's my view of how the Wiki should ends up like.
Make the wiki mobile friendly
This as well. Although the new MediaWiki software did optimized a lot for mobile, some of the templates need to be optimized for mobile.
RE: My Thoughts on the Wiki - GeneralGuy - 08-14-2019
(08-14-2019, 02:51 AM)Pedigree Wrote: While we're at it can we discuss how General is trying to force ban info onto user pages?That's not true at all. You're laughable. Grow up and own up to your actions.
https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=SonicProject&diff=51494&oldid=51486
Bans have never been "widely documented" on wiki except for members putting them on their own page for attention.
To suggest that he has to keep the ban on my page or else the wiki will fade into obscurity is laughable.
People don't need to know that I requested a permaban a decade ago, that's between me and staff. All you're trying to preserve is the drama.
If I can't control what information is put out about me, then I would like my page deleted. Thanks.
I agree with all of your proposals, Yoshin.
And sure, let's just delete the wiki while we're at it. A wiki with no standards or respect for history is a worthless wiki.
RE: My Thoughts on the Wiki - Evil Yoshi Toes - 08-14-2019
GeneralGuy, I know you appreciate the history of mfgg and that’s great, but there are boundaries. If someone doesn’t want certain info documented on their own page just respect that. Doing otherwise is plain rude and inconsiderate.
The current wiki is crazy and rules need to be created to prevent things like this from happening sooner than later. I’m not completely sure what the best thing to do with the wiki is, but while we decide we should have rules to keep the current wiki at least kind of in check.
RE: My Thoughts on the Wiki - Kirby's Adventure - 08-14-2019
(08-14-2019, 02:51 AM)Pedigree Wrote: While we're at it can we discuss how General is trying to force ban info onto user pages?Last I checked, you’re one of the people that are advocating for public warn logs, so why does it matter? This is basically the same thing.
...
People don't need to know that I requested a permaban a decade ago, that's between me and staff. All you're trying to preserve is the drama.
RE: My Thoughts on the Wiki - GeneralGuy - 08-14-2019
(08-14-2019, 11:33 AM)Kirby's Adventure Wrote:You can't expect consistent logic with him. Don't bother.(08-14-2019, 02:51 AM)Pedigree Wrote: While we're at it can we discuss how General is trying to force ban info onto user pages?Last I checked, you’re one of the people that are advocating for public warn logs, so why does it matter? This is basically the same thing.
...
People don't need to know that I requested a permaban a decade ago, that's between me and staff. All you're trying to preserve is the drama.
RE: My Thoughts on the Wiki - Pedigree - 08-14-2019
(08-14-2019, 11:33 AM)Kirby's Adventure Wrote:(08-14-2019, 02:51 AM)Pedigree Wrote: While we're at it can we discuss how General is trying to force ban info onto user pages?Last I checked, you’re one of the people that are advocating for public warn logs, so why does it matter? This is basically the same thing.
...
People don't need to know that I requested a permaban a decade ago, that's between me and staff. All you're trying to preserve is the drama.
It's really not. Information you put on the wiki is visible to literally everyone, including people who are not even registered. You can control who can see the warn/ban log on the forums through permissions.
What I'm advocating for would only be visible to registered members, not literally everyone who stumbles upon MFGG.
RE: My Thoughts on the Wiki - Kirby's Adventure - 08-14-2019
(08-14-2019, 11:36 AM)Pedigree Wrote: It's really not. Information you put on the wiki is visible to everyone, including people who are not even registered. You can control who can see the warn/ban log on the forums through permissions.
Quote:Let us see ban reasons on a banned user's profile or even go back to showing us warnings like on ipb. More Transparency is always a good thingNow I see why you retracted your opinions. Imagine being held accountable by your own suggestions
RE: My Thoughts on the Wiki - Pedigree - 08-14-2019
(08-14-2019, 11:42 AM)Kirby's Adventure Wrote:(08-14-2019, 11:36 AM)Pedigree Wrote: It's really not. Information you put on the wiki is visible to everyone, including people who are not even registered. You can control who can see the warn/ban log on the forums through permissions.Quote:Let us see ban reasons on a banned user's profile or even go back to showing us warnings like on ipb. More Transparency is always a good thingNow I see why you retracted your opinions. Imagine being held accountable by your own suggestions
IPB required you to be registered to see it. Are you being dense on purpose?
RE: My Thoughts on the Wiki - GeneralGuy - 08-14-2019
(08-14-2019, 11:46 AM)Pedigree Wrote: IPB required you to be registered to see it. Are you being dense on purpose?OH BOY! Like that even makes a difference! Anyone who wants to see the history of other members can easily register an account if they can't view it. People who aren't willing to do that probably won't bother looking or caring in the first place.
RE: My Thoughts on the Wiki - OssieTheOstrich - 08-14-2019
Let's not cause any drama in this thread please, because there is already too much.
RE: My Thoughts on the Wiki - Pedigree - 08-14-2019
I thought you said you were done with MFGG in your user title.
RE: My Thoughts on the Wiki - Vert - 08-14-2019
I think what would be nice if the wiki had information like how to design levels, how to make proper Mario OCs, art style guides and so on.
RE: My Thoughts on the Wiki - Pedigree - 08-14-2019
Registering an account is a better barrier than having literally no barrier for guests to see everything.
RE: My Thoughts on the Wiki - Mors - 08-14-2019
I think there's a difference between knowing the reason why a user is currently banned and documenting bans from 15 years ago for the public to see.
Actual warn logs would be a completely different story though.