+- MFGG Forums (https://forums.mfgg.net)
+-- Forum: Community (https://forums.mfgg.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=9)
+--- Forum: General Chat (https://forums.mfgg.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Thread: Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be dead (/showthread.php?tid=2746)
Pages:
1
2
Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be dead - King Piranha Plant - 07-27-2021
I've said this before, but here's your yearly reminder that SMW Central, the Mario rom hacking forum, is extremely active and lively. 18 usernames online on there as I'm posting this. People post rom hacks and give each other feedback, talk about rom hacks. gaming, art and life in general.
Or 22 usernames online on the very active Super Mario Boards, or 63 online on Animal Crossing community the Bell Tree Forums.
But to me SMW Central is the most notable one, because like... it's a rom hacking community. If a rom hacking community can be this kicking in 2021, why isn't MFGG?
Forums didn't die. This inactivity is an MFGG specific issue. It could easily be brought back to life if we keep posting, talk more about fangames and give our creative people feedback. Especially if people on the Discord post on the forums more. And I know I'm part of the problem, so this post is somewhat hypocritical - I disappear a lot and should contribute more. But I think everyone, including me, needs a reminder of this.
We've discussed in the past that MFGG's forums died for reasons such as strictness, the split, and moving to new versions of the forum. Now that those things are all past us, MFGG could easily flow with some activity again.
RE: Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be this dead - Vert - 07-27-2021
I personally wouldn't use SMW Central as a good example of an active community. It is, especially compared to here, but considering how toxic it can be I'd rather have things stay on the quiet side.
But I dunno. That aside it's just how MFGG is now, not sure how it happened. People just don't really stick around I guess. I have my theories, but...
RE: Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be this dead - Vitiman - 07-27-2021
The MFGG forums perhaps got its biggest spike in quite some time because of the milestone anniversary thread. Various people came back online to celebrate for a moment and then - for the most part - dipped out to go back living their normal lives.
In the summer of 2019, we similarly saw a resurgence in activity. This was also driven almost entirely by nostalgia, and the spike did not last.
As much as I don't want this to be the case, the MFGG of 15 years ago is not the MFGG of now. The site's purpose may essentially be identical over that time span, but so much else is different. The staff are completely different (not even sharing any real faces from the staff that reigned even 5 years ago), the member base is almost entirely different, and that community congregates on the Discord platform now. The forums were, in practice, abandoned. I think the current staff saw the writing on the wall and opted not to put so much energy into moderating and upkeep on the forums. If you look at the official staff page right now, both Mors and FWD are primarily listed as Discord Administrators - I think that should tell you everything you need to know. Priorities are different now, for better or for worse.
The forums you linked to... communities like Mario Boards or the Bell Tree Forums, they seem like fairly thriving places! But do they have the same history as MFGG? I know you've brought up that our community's troubled past is behind us, but I'm not as convinced. Over the last few years, we've still managed to have some pretty heated arguments, resignations, spiteful community-offshoots... things that you would hope would be relics of the past. In my last years checking the MFGG forums, I saw a community that was slowly dwindling and the only diehards for a time where people who did not really seem happy being around here. I think most of the average people frequent the Discord server these days. I wouldn't know, I'm not really in there.
Also, forums are objectively dying. 63 members online might seem like a lot at first, until you realize that A.) an internet forum at its peak in the mid-2000s could average over a hundred active members online at any given time and B.) what are those 63 members doing at that particular moment? Are they just idling? How frequent are their posts between hours or days? Maybe they really are all contributing thoughtful & diverse conversations hourly, I can't say I prowled through most of the activity to know for sure... but maybe the reality is simpler than you think: a forum devoted to the various Animal Crossing games - which have had significant online multiplayer functionality since 2005 - is most likely seeing a lot of activity from item trades and arranging member visits. There's a very good chance that, on top of that possibility, you also probably have a community that has managed to keep its oldbies around and not alienate them over silly drama. The same, I'm afraid, cannot be said of here.
Also, as Vert pointed out, not every active community is one we necessarily want to emulate. Of course, I know very little about SMWC's forums, so I'm not going to pretend to throw shade. But if your goal is to emulate any aspects of the MFGG of yore... well, speaking as someone who used MFGG a long time ago: they weren't always the most pleasant time. General dickishness and elitism abound, among other problems.
I'd love to champion a revival of the MFGG forums! I think it'd be a nice place to check from time to time, especially if we can cull negativity better than any past attempts have ever been. But I'm also concerned that, aside from being a fairly lofty goal, if you can manage to actually interest anybody. What's the goal of gaining activity here? Are they the nostalgic oldbies? I don't think they all could have much interest in frequenting an old forum they went on again. What about the newer members? A lot of them probably don't even like using forums that much, otherwise I think we'd see a lot more activity here already. Maybe something in between? You'd have to get pretty lucky to pull that off. It's not impossible... but the odds are against you by quite a significant margin.
It's not all doom and gloom. You making this thread suggests interest. Me writing up this quasi-essay suggests passion is there in others. Internet communities can still thrive! They're more than just silly places of in-jokes and flame wars. Internet communities have rich histories, and it's how you can make lasting friendships. I'm willing to be that every single person who's been on MFGG for longer than a couple of years still has friendships they keep up with in the present day, even if they've otherwise completely moved on from visiting here. Call it a hunch, or maybe call it observing it from personal experience
In any case, I think that's the best that I can put this. As usual, I'm not gonna bother editing this. A stream of consciousness it shall remain. Cheers.
RE: Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be this dead - King Piranha Plant - 07-27-2021
@Vitiman This is a really good response and you made a lot of good points. Especially about MFGG's history - it does matter and will indeed shape the lifespan of a forum's activity.
But as far as forums not being as alive as they used to be -- when I said Bell Tree Forums had 63 online, I meant 63 registered usernames. Total including guests, there are currently 193 people online. That seems somewhat similar to a typical day in MFGG's golden days, if I remember well enough.
My point when I say forums aren't dying, is more in response to how people usually talk about MFGG's inactivity. I hear a lot of people on here just says things like "well Discord has replaced forums, forums are a thing of the past" but clearly that's not true when you look at Super Mario Boards or SMW Central. MFGG seems a bit unique in how dead it is, considering people are still making fangames, and MFGG forums were one of the notably bustling forums of the nostalgic internet.
Like, saying "MSN Messenger is dead" would be an accurate statement, but saying "forums are dead" isn't really true. Forums still are used by a lot of people. Not as popular as they used to be, but not dead.
Hmm, as for whether or not Bell Tree Forums is active due to things like item trades, I checked on Bell Tree Forums - their version of General Chat doesn't have a lot of new posts, it seems pretty equal to MFGG's GC. So yeah, less active than I thought. However, the non-Animal Crossing gaming discussion forum on there is very active with conversation, multiple threads with new posts from today.
One thing I know for certain is there are a fair few MFGGers who are invested in the forums, and want to see them come back to life. It may continue to decline or it may rise in activity if people like us keep talking about fangames and contribute. Though I do understand the days of old are lonnngg behind us and we'll likely won't see the kind of activity Bell Tree or even SMW Central have again on here.
RE: Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be this dead - Q-Nova - 07-27-2021
Personally, I'm just happy that the forum is still alive and gets some good posts. I think activity has been decent lately. Sometimes, I think some people should start looking at the bright side! Just be happy with what you have! At least the forums aren't totally dead and taken down!
I think having a quiet forum has its advantages. As @Vert pointed out, a bigger community is more likely to have some mean ol' bullies and nobody likes that! That's not to say that the forums shouldn't get more active -- in fact, I'd always like to see a little more of it! As long as our staff members are good (in which they are), the bad people can be blocked off and a lot of good people can come in! I think people should realize that if there's something you can do to get activity going, usually you can do that right away! When we didn't have an Isometric Collaboration for a long time, I went up and suggested we do one, and look what happened! We got one going and ended up with a beautiful work of art: https://forums.mfgg.net/showthread.php?tid=2522 We could do the same thing again if we wanted to! Likewise, if there's a different, but fun event you have in mind, start it, or suggest it to see if people are interested! You could discuss it in private with the staff if you want to! In another example, if there's a cool new game you want to discuss but there's no topic for it, go start one!
I've been thinking of sharing this for a while, and I think I found the perfect opportunity for it! There are many reasons why it might be better to abandon Discord and go back to either IRC or good ol' forums and this article explains those reasons:
https://stallman.org/discord.html
Who knows, maybe that link alone will give the forums a huge boost in activity!
RE: Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be this dead - GeneralGuy - 07-27-2021
There are a lot of different events and circumstances that contributed to the the demise of traffic and activity on MFGG's forums. Some of them are the baffling decisions made by the administration here. The first one is abandoning the IPB forums. Right off the bat you have lost a lot of people because: a) they don't feel it's worth the effort of making a new forum account, and b) people who don't even know about the new forums. But that wasn't enough. So afterward we have the second thing that really killed the MFGG forums: The Split. Where the MFGG administration actually wanted to kill the activity on the forums by making it strictly about fangames. So the community is fractured even further. Making Mario fangames is a niche interest, so you want things to be as inclusive and accessible as possible if you want a lot of activity. Speaking of niche, MFGG failed to capitalize on expanding our growth by not including ROM hacks and non-Mario fangames sooner. In fact, we still haven't included a Super Mario Maker level database on the main site, A huge missed opportunity that would have skyrocketed activity here and introduce that demographic to fangames, which gives them far more creative control and customization than a level editor.
Another thing is that nothing fun happens here anymore. There hasn't been any Sprite, Drawing or Minigame competition here in ages, and the new admins don't do any fun stuff anymore like randomly changing the forum skin and embedding music. Coins have absolutely no use, so there's not much incentive to earn them by doing the things that would make the forum more active. There needs to be an appealing incentive and exclusive reason to use the forums over something else.
RE: Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be this dead - SonicKade2048 - 07-27-2021
I'm still just a newbie from the 2015 phpBB time but I may as well leave my (lengthy) two cents:
(07-27-2021, 05:07 PM)King Piranha Plant Wrote: Forums didn't die. This inactivity is an MFGG specific issue. It could easily be brought back to life if we keep posting, talk more about fangames and give our creative people feedback. Especially if people on the Discord post on the forums more. And I know I'm part of the problem, so this post is somewhat hypocritical - I disappear a lot and should contribute more. But I think everyone, including me, needs a reminder of this.
(07-27-2021, 08:37 PM)King Piranha Plant Wrote: My point when I say forums aren't dying, is more in response to how people usually talk about MFGG's inactivity. I hear a lot of people on here just says things like "well Discord has replaced forums, forums are a thing of the past" but clearly that's not true when you look at Super Mario Boards or SMW Central. MFGG seems a bit unique in how dead it is, considering people are still making fangames, and MFGG forums were one of the notably bustling forums of the nostalgic internet.
Like, saying "MSN Messenger is dead" would be an accurate statement, but saying "forums are dead" isn't really true. Forums still are used by a lot of people. Not as popular as they used to be, but not dead.
I feel like the whole "forums "dying"" thing is a result of people finding Discord more flexible to use, mainly for their own reasons. It could be because they simply find it easier / better, it could be because it has features forums don't or are lacking in, who knows. I can't say whether forums as a whole will be truly "dead" because I can't predict the future. None of us can. Plus, MFGG itself is still a site-held community, and we STILL get daily submissions on the main site. It's likely that there's "inactivity" because the majority of people don't want to register or make an account on the forums / join the Discord server (which is completely fine, I might add). Why? Simply, again, for their own personal reasons; there's not a definitive answer or set of answers.
(07-27-2021, 08:10 PM)Vitiman Wrote: The forums you linked to... communities like Mario Boards or the Bell Tree Forums, they seem like fairly thriving places! But do they have the same history as MFGG? I know you've brought up that our community's troubled past is behind us, but I'm not as convinced. Over the last few years, we've still managed to have some pretty heated arguments, resignations, spiteful community-offshoots... things that you would hope would be relics of the past. In my last years checking the MFGG forums, I saw a community that was slowly dwindling and the only diehards for a time where people who did not really seem happy being around here. I think most of the average people frequent the Discord server these days. I wouldn't know, I'm not really in there.
As a Discord frequenter myself, I can confirm that many people still hop into the Discord these days. Thanks to Mors's SM64 Plus project for example, we've had a slight spike in members (though SM64+ questions had to be redirected to Mors's own server). Members come in on their own accord as well, such as a recent member who hopped in after hearing about us from NCFC.
![[Image: unknown.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/636003363305029633/869767382887972874/unknown.png)
As for the heated arguments, there's not much going on by now, honestly. We've had an incident or two of members joining and being pretty rude, and -- this is just my POV -- some of the lighthearted joke comments still feel off-putting to read in the context of past events, since it feels like one of those "insulting you but also not" things. The latter is just me though, the server as a whole is really calm right now.
![[Image: unknown.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/636003363305029633/869768335414423602/unknown.png)
(07-27-2021, 09:14 PM)Q-Nova Wrote: [...] As long as our staff members are good (in which they are), the bad people can be blocked off and a lot of good people can come in! I think people should realize that if there's something you can do to get activity going, usually you can do that right away! [...] There are many reasons why it might be better to abandon Discord and go back to either IRC or good ol' forums and this article explains those reasons:
https://stallman.org/discord.html
Who knows, maybe that link alone will give the forums a huge boost in activity!
Admittedly I'm not the right person to talk about an article like this since I'm not knowledgeable on "is [program / service] bad or not". I'm also thinking there's a connection with the Tor issue since, after a quick Google search, Tor allows for Dark Web scavenging, so maybe Discord wants to be extra safe in that department. Just call it speculation on my end.
![[Image: unknown.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/636003363305029633/869772370955620392/unknown.png)
I will say, though, that we shouldn't be abandoning the Discord in favor of IRC or forums. We shouldn't abandon anything in favor of a "better" option for something like this, and I'll cite myself from earlier as an example:
Quote:
I feel like the whole "forums "dying"" thing is a result of people finding Discord more flexible to use, mainly for their own reasons.
If people prefer the Discord, then that's what they decide, no questions asked. You can say how bad something is, and there are times where the thing in question actually is bad, but for this chat application named Discord, that just falls down to preference and nothing else to me. Oh, and as a side note, Discord has an IRC-esque chat mode that can help those IRC lovers feel more at home.
![[Image: unknown.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/636003363305029633/869774175663951892/unknown.png)
![[Image: unknown.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/636003363305029633/869774242697318480/unknown.png)
(07-27-2021, 09:48 PM)GeneralGuy Wrote: [...] Making Mario fangames is a niche interest, so you want things to be as inclusive and accessible as possible if you want a lot of activity. Speaking of niche, MFGG failed to capitalize on expanding our growth by not including ROM hacks and non-Mario fangames sooner. In fact, we still haven't included a Super Mario Maker level database on the main site, A huge missed opportunity that would have skyrocketed activity here and introduce that demographic to fangames, which gives them far more creative control and customization than a level editor.
Another thing is that nothing fun happens here anymore. There hasn't been any Sprite, Drawing or Minigame competition here in ages, and the new admins don't do any fun stuff anymore like randomly changing the forum skin and embedding music. Coins have absolutely no use, so there's not much incentive to earn them by doing the things that would make the forum more active. There needs to be an appealing incentive and exclusive reason to use the forums over something else.
First, I agree with the idea of adding new features to the main site (SMM level database), but keep in mind that the main site is still on its last leg right now. I'm not a staff member but I've heard countless times from others that the main site is incredibly unstable, so I'd say we should wait until the new version of it (LumaSMS / MFGG3) to come out.
![[Image: unknown.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/636003363305029633/869775265826484234/unknown.png)
Second, that might be because the staff are busy with other events for now and they're lacking people who can or have the time to do so. It's probably more simple than I'm thinking of it to be, so don't take my word for it, but we recently had the 20th anniversary time capsule (and more), before the 20th anniversary they were still trying to come up with a new MFGG logo, and now there's SAGE coming up in August. A couple staff members are game developers too, life can get in the way at any point, you never know what could happen... you get the idea. As well, keep in mind that we're lower on staff right now -- in two ways if you choose to look at it like that; Dustin, Cruise (formerly Blutorus), and a couple others I'm forgetting at the moment aren't in their positions anymore (I think they were Global Mods last I checked?). There's also the lack of activity from others like Langton and Techokami, as they don't post nearly as often as other members (heck, Techokami hasn't posted since 2019...!).
![[Image: unknown.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/527614196817592333/869784495333715998/unknown.png)
To not leave this on a bad note, Mors, Despair, SilverVortex, and the rest of the staff potentially involved with the set-ups for events have still done an excellent job. As well, sorry if it sounds like generalization, but I believe that many other staff members so far have made pretty great contributions to keeping MFGG chugging along. I'm still excited for when LumaSMS is complete, though that's likely farther than I anticipate.
...and, for that SMM idea, might I also suggest adding a SMM sheets section since those are still popular on the main site? They get mixed in with the other sheets easily and there's the issue with repeating tiles in a ton of them since they copy the tSR layout. Just a small idea I remembered.
I believe everything else I could say has been said by others by now. Might update this post accordingly.
With that being said, have a great day.
~SK
RE: Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be this dead - Vitiman - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 09:48 PM)GeneralGuy Wrote: There are a lot of different events and circumstances that contributed to the the demise of traffic and activity on MFGG's forums. Some of them are the baffling decisions made by the administration here. The first one is abandoning the IPB forums. Right off the bat you have lost a lot of people because: a) they don't feel it's worth the effort of making a new forum account, and b) people who don't even know about the new forums. But that wasn't enough. So afterward we have the second thing that really killed the MFGG forums: The Split. Where the MFGG administration actually wanted to kill the activity on the forums by making it strictly about fangames. So the community is fractured even further. Making Mario fangames is a niche interest, so you want things to be as inclusive and accessible as possible if you want a lot of activity. Speaking of niche, MFGG failed to capitalize on expanding our growth by not including ROM hacks and non-Mario fangames sooner. In fact, we still haven't included a Super Mario Maker level database on the main site, A huge missed opportunity that would have skyrocketed activity here and introduce that demographic to fangames, which gives them far more creative control and customization than a level editor.
Another thing is that nothing fun happens here anymore. There hasn't been any Sprite, Drawing or Minigame competition here in ages, and the new admins don't do any fun stuff anymore like randomly changing the forum skin and embedding music. Coins have absolutely no use, so there's not much incentive to earn them by doing the things that would make the forum more active. There needs to be an appealing incentive and exclusive reason to use the forums over something else.
There were two schools of thought to the IPB ship-jumping: at the time, a lot of the member base saw it as a big positive. Finally, MFGG is getting away from that dinosaur of an Invision Power Board and moving on to greener pastures! Of course, those green pastures happened to be the obtuse phpBB board system which, per the opinions of many former staffers (so it's not just me speculating), was an absolute pain to work with and add new functionality to. But hey, it sure beats working with that ancient, obsolete IPB software, right?
Well, in comes the second thought process: IPB was already actively being patched even at the time, and this very well could have continued as new exploits were being discovered and just as necessary. The problem there is that inevitably, IPB would need to have a massive backend overhaul to keep it running more smoothly. Realistically, it's probably not worth keeping that up forever. I can see why they moved on from it, in that case. But I do miss the IPB boards... I don't think there's a single person on MFGG from 2004-2009 who doesn't. Except maybe Henry the Horse. But he was a horse's ass, so screw him. That old rotten loser.
The Split was a very complicated issue and I really don't think you can just say it was the site choosing to annex the community for no good reason. DavidCaruso cruised by here a couple of years ago and gave some valuable insight into what the staff were even doing at the time. Things were pretty chaotic, the member base was barely even interested in fangaming (which I believe was the primary justification for The Split), and a lot of staffers were straight-up quitting because of the experience being so negative. From what I've been told, The Split was an attempt to reign back in the fangaming part of MFGG. But perhaps it was done much too well and it alienated everyone for a while. But the truth is, post-Split, MFGG was... largely fine. When I came back in 2012 after several years of not really browsing anymore, I was surprised to find that the community was largely all right. They hadn't gotten the General Chat back yet, but things were fine. A bit quiet, but fine. I guess that's how these things go.
Now, do I think The Split was executed well? Ehh... probably not. But that's the past. We're looking at over a decade since that happened. We can dwell on it all we want, but there's really no point to it. It's time to look forward!
One point you raise that I think is excellent is that forum events are basically at a standstill. It's disheartening to see the current-day staff not even bother with competitions anymore and - hey, I get it, user turnout was getting really low by the end of it, but it's still really unfortunate. The most that happens these days are the Game Jams; those admittedly still yield some pretty remarkable activity, but all of that activity is thrown off-site onto Discord or itch.io. C'mon guys! That's exactly the kind of thing you could put on the forums! What's the big idea? Who knows.
I think that's your main problem: if you want the forums to thrive better, you're gonna need staff participation. You've gotta show them there's still a clock tickin' on here. Either that or we abandon ship again and go back to the IPB boards, which we'll declare re-opened. Hahaha. I mean why not? If the forums are barely being used, who cares right? I'm mostly joking of course... but think about it
RE: Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be dead - Razz - 07-28-2021
MFGG isn't dead, because you and me are posting.
MFGG will only be dead when the site literally dies (Might happen someday unfortunately) or people stop posting forever (Statistically unlikely).
Just be happy that the site still exists, and some of the old people are posting. Don't let your fondness for the past color the present!
RE: Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be dead - King Piranha Plant - 07-28-2021
(07-28-2021, 01:12 AM)Razz Wrote: MFGG isn't dead, because you and me are posting.
MFGG will only be dead when the site literally dies (Might happen someday unfortunately) or people stop posting forever (Statistically unlikely).
Just be happy that the site still exists, and some of the old people are posting. Don't let your fondness for the past color the present!
The thread was meant more as a response to how people tend to call the forums "dead" and say Discord replaced them. But no I totally get you and agree! I'm appreciative that we're still alive as much as we are, and one reason I felt I should post this thread right now is because I know there's been activity from older members lately, so I was hoping to remind anyone lurking that the forums can still be lively if we come around.
RE: Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be this dead - Vert - 07-28-2021
(07-27-2021, 08:37 PM)King Piranha Plant Wrote: MFGG seems a bit unique in how dead it is, considering people are still making fangames, and MFGG forums were one of the notably bustling forums of the nostalgic internet.
MFGG is hardly dead, it's just that most of the activity has moved to the Discord server. I still see a lot of people talking about and posting their fangames there. When you have an userbase that leans towards the young, they're just not going to bother with having to visit a forum to talk about fangames when they could use the platform they use for everything else instead.
RE: Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be dead - zelma - 07-28-2021
____
____
RE: Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be dead - VinnyVideo - 07-28-2021
I don't think MFGG will ever return to the time when we were getting (literally) a million posts every year. Honestly, that's OK! It's totally OK to have a calmer, less frenetic community - one that's a little more mature and a little more focused on our core purpose of making games, especially Mario fangames.
However, the MFGG forums are not dead! And I know we can do better than this. People will participate more if they have a reason to go here. It's crucial to have events - for example, we never seem to do Sprite Comps and Drawing Comps anymore. Those are easy to set up, and they're relatively easy and accessible to participate in. I'm sure we could come up with new ideas for competitions, collaborations, and events if we put our minds together! Even little things could help - get a bunch of MFGGers together to play an online game or watch someone stream a bunch of fangames. These things are really, really easy to do - these are probably things a lot of us are doing on the average evening or weekend. Not all of these events will be a massive hit, and that's OK - but I'm sure some of them will be a big success!
People have mentioned a bunch of different reasons why forums aren't as popular as they once were. One big reason that hasn't been mentioned yet is mobile usability. Forum software has almost always been designed with PCs in mind. However, a high percentage of Web browsing now takes place on phones and other mobile devices. Most forum systems have had a hard time coming up with a good mobile skin. While not all social media sites deliver a consistently great mobile experience, they have the advantage of an army of handsomely-compensated engineers working on making their sites and apps more mobile-oriented.
I don't want to be too rough on the current staff - I've been there, I know it's not an easy job, and I'm well aware that the salary and benefits aren't exactly amazing. However... it disappoints me to see the current staff treating the MFGG forums as an afterthought. I think it's important for all the staff members to be active and visible on the forums and to play a role in promoting this essential part of MFGG.
There's still a lot of reasons why the forums are fun and valuable - they have advantages that no Discord chatroom can ever replace. Forums are easy to search (good luck getting Discord conversations to show up in Google search results), they have creative skins and their own unique vibe, they're open source, we own them and know nobody's selling our data to make some Silicon Valley venture capitalist rich, and most importantly, their asynchronous nature makes them easier to keep up with.
Speaking to my last point, I have a full-time job and I lack the time and desire to be checking a Discord chatroom 24/7. If an interesting conversation comes up in the Discord, and I saw it a couple of days later, it would be really weird and awkward to try to resurrect a long-buried conversation. In contrast, with a forum, it's totally normal to respond to a topic a few days later.
The MFGG Discord is not my thing, and it never will be - I just don't enjoy big chatrooms full of people I'm not close to. I understand that a lot of the newer generations prefer that kind of communication, and that's OK too. But there's also people who'd rather post on a forum. I think it's important for everyone to recognize that both groups of people exist - and that both groups play an important role in making MFGG a fun, vibrant community!
RE: Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be dead - Hyper - 07-28-2021
I am pretty bad on discussing such matters but I can hardly see MFGG forums is dead. All I can say is that it's slow.
I think some have mentioned above: users have to create an account and then another account in the forums. However, I have thought about a solution that can be very helpful since I am the guy (also Mors) who's spearheading the new MFGG main site and forums software. LumaSMS (the new software) will use the existing database (but converted for efficiency). Which allows users to keep their existing account, but also allows them to use the same account for the forums. Since Discord is convenient to use, we wanted this new software to be convenient to use as well.
I can't think of anything else at the moment but once I get the basics done for LumaSMS, we can start discussing on that.
RE: Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be dead - King Piranha Plant - 07-28-2021
The idea of having the site and forums connected is awesome! I think that could help a lot, especially when it comes to people just dropping in or lurking. If you're more easily or automatically logged in, there'd be more incentive to post.
RE: Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be dead - Mors - 07-31-2021
Now that I have the time, I read through the thread I will admit... Yeah, we sorta ignored the forums in the last few years even though we could do more with it, but I also wanna raise a counterpoint, just to spark some discussion.
We can probably revive the forums if we want, true, we can potentially even shift some of our focus here. But... should we?
Like yeah, we could hold the events here instead of Discord or Itch, but we lose more by doing so than we gain. For example, MFGG doesn't exactly have the infrastructure to hold a game jam at the moment. There isn't a proper countdown, there is no way to rate games and set up a rating period, there's no way to automatically list the winning games, and so on. If we decide to use the main site and the forums to host the jams we will be making things less convenient for everyone. Another example would be the Secret Santa. Sure, we can host it here, but considering that far fewer people visit the forums it wouldn't be too weird to assume that far fewer people would join and keep track of it too.
A solution to the latter would be to just make people visit the forums, but can we really force the people to do that? Like even at MFGG's peak, IRC and Skype were super active, as much as the forums, and now Discord is more popular than both ever were, and the forums are kind of a dying platform.
And looking at other posts in this thread, people who seem to want the forums back are people who are nostalgic for it. But we can't really be stuck in the past forever, can we? In an online community, old members constantly leave, and new ones replace those who are gone. If you don't have people joining to replace those who go though... that's when a community truly dies. By moving our focus to Discord and being up with the times we are just trying to stay alive essentially.
I know genuine arguments for forums can be made too, Vinny made some excellent ones I agree with, and I also have a lot of nostalgia for here too. I'm just being a hater now to justify ignoring the forums all this time to give a different perspective.
Either way though, the forums won't go anywhere anytime soon. As long as they have a reason to exist, they will, and for me, the legacy of it alone is a good reason to keep it around. It might not be our main focus anymore, but it's still one of MFGG's 3 main pillars. (Main Site, Forums, and Discord. Sorry wiki!)
And as for MFGG 3.0, yeah as Nova said we will be combining it with the main site, which I'm expecting to be HUGELY beneficial for both. It won't be 100% the same as before but I'll make sure that not only it will stay true enough to its original self, but will also have more of a purpose to itself than just being a backup for Discord and a nostalgia hub for the oldbies. We will probably share more on that more once we make more progress.
RE: Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be dead - GeneralGuy - 07-31-2021
I think we should definitely revive the forums. I prefer the slower paced replies, organized topics, longevity of discussions and subjects, and customizability of forums. Badges, forums events and other aspects are great incentives/reasons to use the forums.
RE: Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be dead - darkblueyoshi - 08-01-2021
Idea: Something that bridges the MFGG forums and the MFGG Discord communities together.
Example of this Idea: People don't go to the forums because it's another tab to keep open. If there was a way to subscribe to individual forum topics on the MFGG Discord then the MFGG forums will technically get more views. It won't make the forums more alive in active posters, but it will be viewed by more people.
RE: Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be dead - warioCritic - 08-01-2021
waiting for the cosmi 300 mfgg games for windows 12
RE: Proof that MFGG doesn't need to be dead - Hyper - 08-02-2021
(08-01-2021, 04:27 PM)darkblueyoshi Wrote: Idea: Something that bridges the MFGG forums and the MFGG Discord communities together.
Example of this Idea: People don't go to the forums because it's another tab to keep open. If there was a way to subscribe to individual forum topics on the MFGG Discord then the MFGG forums will technically get more views. It won't make the forums more alive in active posters, but it will be viewed by more people.
I like this idea. Since the front end will be written in React Typescript, perhaps using hooks and write Discord bot? Maybe even you can use the bot to reply to the post without even posting on the forums. I no clue how Discord bots work but perhaps I can look into that in the future.