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+--- Thread: Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff (/showthread.php?tid=765)
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Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff - VinnyVideo - 04-18-2018
MFGG's mainsite occupies a well-defined niche: Mario fangames. However, the MFGG community sometimes makes games that don't fit on the MFGG mainsite. Some of these games have become popular but don't have a permanent home. Because of the tenuous nature of the Internet, some iconic games have been in danger of being lost. For example, it took a lot of digging to find copies of the Waligie games and other joke games such as Live in a Buttock. Because those games never were hosted on the mainsite, we had to rely on third-party sites to host the files, and third-party sites often delete files that go inactive for too long - and some of these hosts have gone out of business altogether. Having an "Alternate MFGG" could also be fun for those who wanted to host non-Mario fangames or indie projects. There are other sites like GameJolt that fill a similar role, but some people might like having another place to host such things.
If we did this, there are a few things we'd need to consider:
Name: Obviously, we'd need a name! Feel free to suggest ideas. We'd probably use an MFGG subdomain (such as sitename.mfgg.net) unless someone wants to buy a domain name for it.
Graphics: Once we decide on a name, we'd also need someone to make a few graphics for the theme. (If you're willing and able to make good graphics for it, your vote for the name might count a little more.)
Community: This would not cannibalize the MFGG forums in any way. The "community" link would still point to the MFGG forums - we won't need a separate forum (or a separate Wiki or Discord group) for this.
Software: There's a couple of ways we could do this. We could make a simple site using a framework like WordPress, Joomla, or Drupal. Alternatively, we could wait until the new mainsite system is finished and use lumaSMS to run this.
If you have any suggestions, ideas, or concerns, please speak up! This won't happen immediately, but I'd love to see it happen before the cows come home.
RE: Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff - Hyper - 04-18-2018
Another MFGGer and I were discussing about a separate fan community that's focusing on fan games outside of MFGG. However I need to find a good time when my budget is stable enough to afford a server. I can easily come up with a .com/.net domain name.
I am not too certain how this would worked out but it's worth a shot.
RE: Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff - Kritter - 04-18-2018
I don't see the point in a separate site.
MY personal opinion is that we either stick with the niche that we have, or go all-in on a new website that will replace MFGG as a whole with a more general Nintendo Fan Game website. I lean towards the latter these days, as separate fangame communites like the Zelda or Metroid communities should still be able to exist while being a part of a greater whole rather than a niche shoved in a corner without a community to back it up, and this could still leave room open for indie games or things that are "based on" Nintendo properties, as long as the tagging system on the new website is added with a "joke game" tag.
Dibs on creating a skin / layout for "Nintendo Fan Game Universe ©, TM ®"
RE: Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff - Pedigree - 04-18-2018
Agreed with Kritter.
Sister site would just split the community.
So either expand this one or stick with the Mario niche.
RE: Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff - Vitiman - 04-18-2018
(04-18-2018, 08:36 PM)Pedigree Wrote: Agreed with Kritter.
Sister site would just split the community.
Per the OP, "This would not cannibalize the MFGG forums in any way. The "community" link would still point to the MFGG forums - we won't need a separate forum (or a separate Wiki or Discord group) for this."
Plus, either way you spin it, there are probably people who only went to MFGG for Mario content and find an expansion not to their tastes. It's less a matter of "trying to please everybody" and more "thinking what's best for the community in the long term". Kritter certainly raises some good points, but I'm still leaning more towards a sister site - especially since any major changes to MFGG proper would have to wait until LumaSMS enters the foray, while a separate area for non-Mario fangame content could theoretically be built off of anything (although I suspect it would be upgraded to LumaSMS once that's completed).
For a point of comparison, Sonic Retro is still Sonic Retro, and yet it has a separate directory of sorts for Sega as a whole dubbed (as one would expect) "Sega Retro". It's been around for quite a while I believe and it seems to be running just fine and hasn't split the community at large.
Also, full disclosure: I'm the other MFGGer that Hypernova is referring to in his post.
RE: Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff - Pedigree - 04-18-2018
Kinda weird that a Nintendo Fan Games Community would link to MFGG forums instead of its own, isn't it?
You'd have to at least rebrand the forums... which would be awkward since lumaSMS combines both the site and forums.
Linking to MFGG for the community doesn't make sense for a sister site with a completely different focus.
Calling it Mario Fan Games Galaxy still on the sister site would be an even more confusing choice, especially because Mario content wouldn't be uploaded there.
RE: Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff - Kritter - 04-18-2018
If they only come here for Mario content then that'll still exist under its own category, there'll just be more stuff to see and do. And if they share the same Mario-centric community then what's the point?
Plus designing a website that'll need upgrading to LumaSMS later seems like more work than necessary, you can't just slap a new system on a website and expect it to fit like a good tshirt otherwise MFGG would've been upgraded a loooooong time ago.
RE: Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff - Pedigree - 04-18-2018
The Mario niche really doesn't carry the same weight that it used to. In fact, I've gotten complaints over the past year about competitions that focus on Mario content instead of being a broader focus. I don't think as many people as you think would be angry if you simply had a new section on the current site for Non-Mario content.
If you're going to do this, it could definitely be a separate section on the site but not a separate site.
rebranding MFGG should be a further down the road thing, start small with a new section first
only problem is having to wait for lumaSMS to make those changes
RE: Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff - Kritter - 04-18-2018
(04-18-2018, 08:53 PM)Pedigree Wrote: The Mario niche really doesn't carry the same weight that it used to. In fact, I've gotten complaints over the past year about competitions that focus on Mario content instead of being a broader focus. I don't think as many people as you think would be angry if you simply had a new section on the current site for Non-Mario content.
Totally agree. It's still the biggest niche that could exist on a website based around Nintendo but I think MFGG would be better off in the long-term if it rebranded under a singular Nintendo banner somewhere down the line.
RE: Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff - VinnyVideo - 04-18-2018
Yeah, going "all in" and expanding to general Nintendo fangames is something worth considering, especially since many of the other Nintendo fangaming sites have died out.
RE: Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff - Pedigree - 04-18-2018
Exactly, it's a niche that is untouched right now. Potentially a better niche than Mario even.
We could probably figure out how to make an Other Nintendo section on the mainsite with duct tape and paper clips.
Actually maybe Hypernova could do it :O he seems pretty capable.
RE: Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff - GamerInGeorgia - 04-18-2018
Well, there was a Metroid fan games (Metroid: Fan Mission) site that was archived in 2011 due to inactivity, there are Zelda fan games, some Kirby ones as well (as well as an engine being developed here on the MFGG forums), some Pokemon fan-games, and many various fan-games on Game Jolt.
As for the "Mario niche," I think that we should keep this. Here's why:
First off, more people know about the characters/games themselves than the company who created them. And Mario, who is the mascot of Nintendo, is still the most iconic character of all the Nintendo franchises. While some people might be searching up "Nintendo fan games," most will be searching "Mario fan-games" or "Zelda fan-games." Unless we want to be the MZKMPFGG (Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Metroid, and Pokemon Fan Games Galaxy [a combination of the most iconic Nintendo IPs]), being NFGG (Nintendo Fan Games Galaxy) won't grant us the same amount of visits.
Second, while we're not afraid that "Nintendo's gonna go after our fanmade vidya games," becoming a Nintendo Fan Games Galaxy is a whole other issue. Right now, we are a Mario fan-site with Mario fan-games. But, if we become a Nintendo fan-site with Nintendo fan-games in general from all Nintendo franchises, this might get Nintendo on our case. We don't exactly know how Nintendo feels about us at the moment, but with more members, fan-games, and Nintendo-based content, that could be the straw that breaks the camels back, or make it more likely that someone would make a fan-game that gets all of us busted. I have no problem with this expansion of MFGG, but we need to play it safe.
RE: Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff - Evil Yoshi Toes - 04-18-2018
@GamerInGeorgia MFGG was pretty big once and as far as I know Nintendo didn't seem to mind. It is worth noting that the quality of fangames has improved since then, so perhaps that would cause more issue.
Still, I don't think it's a much larger risk than MFGG currently is. Fan games that come closest to rivaling official games in terms of quality, like Midas Machine and Flashback, have been fine while direct remakes have been shut down for obvious reasons. I'd assume the existence of fan games is known by Nintendo, but they don't shut down games that aren't direct remakes and that make no profit because they don't detract from business.
Keeping "Nintendo" out of our title would make it even less of a risk but I think having that in our title would be necessary unless we branch out to fan games in general, Nintendo related or not.
I don't really know how web browsers work, but would changing our site name greatly affect whether or not we come up after a "Mario fan game" search? We are a pretty prominent fan game site and just by searching "fan game" we are one of the tops, underneath Game Jolt. I'd think we'd still come up for "mario fan game" since we'd have more Mario related content than any other fan-game-related site and we come up so quickly even with "mario" omitted. But again, I don't know a lot about how this kind of thing works.
RE: Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff - Pedigree - 04-18-2018
(04-18-2018, 10:02 PM)GamerInGeorgia Wrote: Well, there was a Metroid fan games (Metroid: Fan Mission) site that was archived in 2011 due to inactivity, there are Zelda fan games, some Kirby ones as well (as well as an engine being developed here on the MFGG forums), some Pokemon fan-games, and many various fan-games on Game Jolt.
As for the "Mario niche," I think that we should keep this. Here's why:
First off, more people know about the characters/games themselves than the company who created them. And Mario, who is the mascot of Nintendo, is still the most iconic character of all the Nintendo franchises. While some people might be searching up "Nintendo fan games," most will be searching "Mario fan-games" or "Zelda fan-games." Unless we want to be the MZKMPFGG (Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Metroid, and Pokemon Fan Games Galaxy [a combination of the most iconic Nintendo IPs]), being NFGG (Nintendo Fan Games Galaxy) won't grant us the same amount of visits.
Second, while we're not afraid that "Nintendo's gonna go after our fanmade vidya games," becoming a Nintendo Fan Games Galaxy is a whole other issue. Right now, we are a Mario fan-site with Mario fan-games. But, if we become a Nintendo fan-site with Nintendo fan-games in general from all Nintendo franchises, this might get Nintendo on our case. We don't exactly know how Nintendo feels about us at the moment, but with more members, fan-games, and Nintendo-based content, that could be the straw that breaks the camels back, or make it more likely that someone would make a fan-game that gets all of us busted. I have no problem with this expansion of MFGG, but we need to play it safe.
I don't agree at all with you that less people know about Nintendo than Mario itself. That's a pretty crazy theory and I'd like to see whatever statistics you have that led you to it.
Furthermore, Google Keyword Planner places "Nintendo" at 10 million - 100 million hits while "Mario" only gets around 1 million - 10 million... so I don't know where you are getting this from.
Rebranding MFGG to some variation of Nintendo Fangames probably isn't coming until later, but this fear that Nintendo is going to strike us down even though tons of higher traffic sites use "Nintendo" in their names is pretty ridiculous. Please also make sure you read this topic I did on the subject of the Nintendo takedown fear: https://forums.mfgg.net/showthread.php?tid=59
@Evil Yoshi Toes
I'm pretty sure you can set keywords in the meta data. There is no reason why we wouldn't come up for a "Mario fan game" search if those are properly setup.
RE: Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff - Kritter - 04-18-2018
Yeah changing the name to Nintendo Fan Games Galaxy wouldn't automatically make all searches for "Mario Fan Games" turn up blank, it doesn't work that way.
RE: Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff - DustinVG - 04-19-2018
I'm more for the sister mainsite (not sister forums!) because it'd let the original site continue operating how it has.
RE: Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff - Pedigree - 04-19-2018
Having two sites seems like a lot of work for no reason to me. Just add a section on MFGG to start and gradually change it over if people are happy with how the section is going.
Staff seems to be pretty busy recently as it is, so I'm not sure how well it would work to have two sites running simultaneously with their own queues.
RE: Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff - Vitiman - 04-19-2018
I've actually been told modifying TaloncrossingSMS as it currently stands to have a new section would be extremely tedious to some degree. It might actually genuinely be easier to do a sister main site at this point in time.
RE: Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff - DustinVG - 04-19-2018
(04-19-2018, 12:52 AM)Michelangelo Wrote: I've actually been told modifying TaloncrossingSMS as it currently stands to have a new section would be extremely tedious to some degree. It might actually genuinely be easier to do a sister main site at this point in time.
As it stands now, this seems to be the case. I've attempted to add the confirmed (and seemingly much anticipated) hacks section to no avail.
RE: Making a second mainsite for non-Mario stuff - VinnyVideo - 04-19-2018
Right now, it would be next to impossible to make major changes to the way TCSMS works. It's easy to add new subcategories (new games or characters to associate with sprite submissions), but it would be very hard to make any bigger changes - like a way to have "Mario" and "Zelda" and "Metroid" sections, or even adding a category for ROM hacks.
Any major changes to the mainsite probably won't happen until lumaSMS is finished.
(Depending on how we did it, making a sister site could be done before lumaSMS is completed.)