Is this how we treat our members?

[Pedigree]

>telling multiple members offering feedback to shut up or get punished
>if we don't like that you can run the community however you want, then leave

This is extremely poor form. And not a very good Christmas present.

---

He later rejoined and apologized with the following statement:

 

[Mario]

I guess it shouldn't be too surprising to see MFGG's old motto of "If you don't like it, leave." show up again.

Look, if you truly believe Stir won't change his ways or conform to whatever moving goalposts you guys have set up for him, then it really shouldn't be a problem to wait for him to cross that line again? It's not his fault you guys mess up nearly every ban and warn you give him, yet here you are, abruptly taking it out on him. If you can't understand why people would be upset about this maybe you shouldn't be the people in charge of judging everyone else's behaviour.

And just for the record, bans are always the community's business. If a member of the community is no longer allowed to contribute to the community, that's something that obviously affects everyone. Bans and moderator actions are always going to be disruptive; you need to be honest about that when creating your policies or you're just going to keep running into situations like this.

I'm just going to leave you with the article I always link, How to effectively moderate forums and a quote from it:

A community relies on its members – before you take decisive action against yours, make sure you are making the right decision.

Proud member of the Shadow █████████████

Interested in web development? Check out Super Mario Web Development. Wahoo!

 

""We choose to go to the [Suggestions board] not because it's easy, but because it's hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win."
- John F. Kennedy"
- gothgirlgangblastermaster

[rollerC]

"Is this how we treat our members?"

This is the biggest problem with MFGG. There's too much history between MW and MFGG to truly ensure that every single member and staffer is unbiased in any decision about a ban, a kick, whatever. Every single time a MWer gets banned or punished in any way, it becomes a public issue that all the MFGG staff have to deal with and handle. The issue with this is, how can you trust yourselves to be unbiased when the person getting banned is a close online friend of yours? You all act like you know the best way to handle these members and gang up to encourage staffers and other members to defend someone to wit's end or spew hatred at them until they buckle down.

The most vocal people of this community have incredibly short memories. They can only bother to argue one instance at a time, one issue at a time, instead of looking at the larger issue of "why is the community this way? why is the staff this way? why are the members this way?" On either side, staffers or members, there's no intent to listen or understand. There's only an intent to talk down, to tell the other side what they think, to say "This is how it is and this has ALWAYS been a problem on MFGG!" Then why don't you all work together to solve it instead of creating a dumpster fire in #feedback for an hour before a staffer gives a conclusive response? You were spending all your time discussing the ban without every member being aware of the circumstances on both sides for a full hour. You clearly started the discussion just to express your distaste and rally people against the staff's decision. And when a staffer finally snaps, decides he can't take it anymore, you skewer him and keep going.

That's not to say I think any of the staff are doing the best job possible either. Vinny hardly does anything for the community aspect of MFGG, and when he does, he causes a massive f***-up without fail and things have to be reeled back. Dustin's resolve at this point is so thoroughly crushed that he can't bring himself to voice his opinion on nearly anything anymore because he fears the vitriol from the members. Cruise clearly makes massive missteps like the above when trying to put an end to madness. You wanna know who I think does the best job in MFGG? Yoshin. And I also think that all of the drama on MFGG seriously deteriorates her mental health. Can I know that for sure? No. But it's clear that the online communities she is a part of plagues her conscience in one way or another.

I think it's genuinely disgusting that you all were spending tons of time discussing Stir's ban instead of doing anything to figure out what was happening to Yoshin. And when you discovered that she attempted suicide, most people went "I hope she's okay..." and then continued discussing Stir. You just tied her incident up with Stir and decided that Stir was the more important issue in the moment.

Yoshin said in the Discord this:

Diantha
I will come out publically that I am not a fan of my accident there being used for this

The staff should feel incredibly ashamed that they instantly went to looking for someone to punish following Yoshin's disappearance. All Cruise has admitted was that:

Cruise Elroy
Alright, let me say it then
We shouldn't have assumed this was the entire reason Yoshin disappeared and we should have investigated further
you happy?

No. I'm not happy. Giving an acknowledgment about this after the fact does not change the huge, royal f***-up that is essentially pinning a staffer's disappearance and suspected suicide attempt on one single member . I'm not in the Stir Love Club. Stir's followed me around to other communities I'm in and raised hell over there. I know the staff genuinely believes that Stir is a negative influence on the community. But was yesterday really the time to hone in all your considerations about banning him? After a situation you didn't look to investigate thoroughly before blaming it on Stir?

I've seen the logs of MW #venting since they've been posted in #feedback. Yoshin was not inviting Stir or anyone to "constructive criticism" of her. She was trying to understand why the cross MW/MFGGers were "removing [her] from their online life" simply because she's now an admin on MFGG. She didn't understand why she was feeling like her friendship was being thrown away just because she's rising up the ladder in a different community. Stir immediately went to imply that she cares about MFGG more than MW. Guess what? People can have multiple interests. They can like multiple communities. What is wrong with you guys for shaming her just because she likes MFGG and MW? You used to support her and now you're not as willing just because of a small Mario website?



So here's my suggestion, since this is the Suggestions subforum.

Delete the community part of MFGG or at the very least delete the Discord. There are clearly very few staffers who understand how to handle a platform where people don't think through each and every post like they do a forum. FWD understands how to handle it. Yoshin understands how to handle it. Cruise understands how to handle it. The rest really do not, and I'm including the Discord mods in that.

For the past six months, MFGG Discord has not had a single moment where it was calm from impending drama. Some of you may blame that on the staffers or former staffers for having an inability to approach the server and its members in a respectful way. Speaking as someone who's been a low-level staffer on MFGG, let me say this: MFGG is such a unique and bitter community to handle that I'm amazed all of the staff haven't resigned yet. I have a lot of respect for them continuing to try to fix things and having hope that they can make MFGG better in some far off day, but there comes a point where you just have to give up.

And if nearly losing a staffer's life and causing yet another ban with a big stupid mistake won't convince anyone to give up on the Discord, I don't know what will.

That's all I have to say. Good luck, MFGG.

I'm on the MarioBoards, Minus World, and the Bell Tree Forums as rollerC if you wanna check me out.

[Yoshin]

I think it's genuinely disgusting that you all were spending tons of time discussing Stir's ban instead of doing anything to figure out what was happening to Yoshin. And when you discovered that she attempted suicide, most people went "I hope she's okay..." and then continued discussing Stir.

I wont sugar coat it, I was literally dying. When I finally came to and checked things plenty of people did try to contact me. It took someone spending a good portion of their money to finally get a hold of me, and it was by chance that I was even conscious at the time.

I also think that all of the drama on MFGG seriously deteriorates her mental health. Can I know that for sure? No. But it's clear that the online communities she is a part of plagues her conscience in one way or another.

MFGG and MW drama is definitely the 2nd biggest negative to my overall mental stability, next to my current IRL situation. But at the same time these two sites and the communities that surround them are well, family I guess? My real life family either passed away or disowned me, and ever since people from either site have been there for me in my darkest times. Even if some of said times were inflicted by the communities, as it whats happened here. There are people here that I've known longer then anyone I have ever known, IRL or online. Too ride off this energy...

You used to support her and now you're not as willing just because of a small Mario website?

I will 100% admit, this was the reason I did it. Seeing that people who I thought cared about me just toss me aside because of Mario Fangames hurt. I will give them the benefit of the doubt here in that they probably did not intend for what they said to come off that way, but intent and what actually goes through are two different things. Especially to someone on the edge like I was.

The staff should feel incredibly ashamed that they instantly went to looking for someone to punish following Yoshin's disappearance.

To play devil's advocate, from their POV it really did look like Stir was the reason I did it even ignoring the clear bias they have(Though the bias isn't exactly not warranted, but he has good reasons for acting the way he does as well). But I agree, even after finding out I was "not dead" they continued to go about Stir.

Delete the community part of MFGG or at the very least delete the Discord. There are clearly very few staffers who understand how to handle a platform where people don't think through each and every post like they do a forum. FWD understands how to handle it. Yoshin understands how to handle it. Cruise understands how to handle it. The rest really do not, and I'm including the Discord mods in that.

I'm honoured that you feel that way about me, but I have to disagree in the the "delete the community" part. I don't have any good reasons to back up my opinion but I think we just need staff who are more equipped for such a thing.



I can't help but feel at least partially responsible for all this. After all none of this would have happened had I not attempted to take my own life. It was a decision I ultimately made myself. Was I in the most lucid and great of mindsets? No, far from it. But I still made the choice.

Lando Never Dies
pfp by Plasmi

[GothGirlGangBlasterMaster]

@rollerC I would like to talk to you about this in a private setting. What is the best way to contact you?

for any inquiries please contact me in hell

[booboo the fool]

I don't have much to add to the conversation other than Yoshin please don't blame yourself for being a catalyst to something that seems like it was likely to happen on it's own in a matter of time. Glad to know you're okay.

shine!

[rollerC]

@rollerC I would like to talk to you about this in a private setting. What is the best way to contact you?

Discord is fine. rollerC#5125

I'm on the MarioBoards, Minus World, and the Bell Tree Forums as rollerC if you wanna check me out.

[Mario]

The most recent Ace Attorney episode was an anime-only episode that had a really relevant storyline where a character was going to kill himself because even though the evidence showed that he was innocent of a trial he lost before, he believed the American court system's insistence that it's perfect meant they'd never turn back a decision. However, the American guy showed up and told him. NO! Our strive to be perfect doesn't mean we defend our mistakes, it means we admit them and correct them.

Are you trying to do your best MFGG? Or just doing what feels good in the moment?

Proud member of the Shadow █████████████

Interested in web development? Check out Super Mario Web Development. Wahoo!

 

""We choose to go to the [Suggestions board] not because it's easy, but because it's hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win."
- John F. Kennedy"
- gothgirlgangblastermaster

[Pedigree]

https://forums.mfgg.net/showthread.php?t...n=lastpost

So is this also how you treat your members? After staff told me last night that no decision was made, you waltz right in and make a rogue statement and close the feedback thread?

I'm also not convinced that Stir can make his own case because, well, he's banned from every single MFGG platform. Not to mention that there's no case he has to really make because he was banned illegitimately for something he did not do and now you're trying to ban him retroactively for past offenses you failed to ban him for.

Suck it up and unban him. You'll have to wait until he breaks the rules the next time to ban him properly, @VinnyVideo.

 

[Kritter]

"If you don't like it, leave"

In a way that's actually good advice. I've technically "left" MFGG, unless you count this post, but I struggle to remember this place exists after getting rid of it from favourites and bookmarks and so on. That's a sign that I probably don't care enough to stay any more. It's only when things around the internet remind me that I remember to check in and when I do I can feel my blood pressure rising when I start reading this s***, it's cyclical and tiresome.

I honestly, from the bottom of my heart, encourage everyone to question why you're actually here, whether it's worth it or enjoyable in the slightest, look for another community etc. Don't come here if you're having no fun any more, it's terrible for your health, terrible for what's left of the community, terrible for your mind and just a bad time all around. Even if you're staff.

[Syaxamaphone]

Sometimes its kind of like watching building fire or a train wreck. You know its a tragedy but you just can't look away.

My games | My twitter | My stream | Sprites Unlimited

[Evil Yoshi Toes]

I don't know enough about this issue at the moment to make an educated comment about it, but I just wanted to say that, Yoshin, I am glad you are doing better and I hope you continue to heal.

[Pedigree]

So uhh, it's been four days now since Mors and Vinny said that they would talk about and resolve Drei's ban. He's still permabanned from everything and there's been no indication that y'all are still talking about it?

I'm sorry but he's now been banned longer than a week for something staff has admitted that he did not do and that they did not investigate it thoroughly enough.

 

[Yrr]

tbh fire vinny video if he cant perform the basic f***ing task of reversing a ban

---

clearly not giving mfgg his full attention

[Pedigree]

If everyone on forum/discord staff besides Vinny Video has come out in public to say they are fine with unbanning him, and Vinny Video's response is a vague "not everyone agrees with unbanning him" then I find that suspicious. I honestly expect he's using his role to keep the ban on Drei and that's just not right.

If he can't put the staff's and MFGG members' views before his own as an admin, then absolutely he should step down to Quality Control or be demoted to that level.

I feel that VinnyVideo has been drifting away from MFGG for a long time other than to do events and throw his weight around as admin to have the final say tbh. He's a better fit for Quality Control I think. But he definitely shouldn't be speaking for all of staff when most of the staff has come out publicly to say that they're fine with unbanning him with a "you're banned the next time you f*** up" kind of clause for some of them and he's just coming out saying "well some people do not agree with unbanning him". Who? Literally who?

I'm even fine with unbanning Drei with a "next time you f*** up you're out" clause. Just unban him.

I know it feels like we just lost a lot of administrators but he's definitely not a good fit if he's using his role to keep Drei banned despite the fact that he didn't do the thing he was banned for.