08-05-2018, 05:38 PM
Have an issue with the Discord? Want to discuss ways to improve activity? Want to suggest a cool bot?
Do it all here.
Do it all here.
08-05-2018, 05:38 PM
Have an issue with the Discord? Want to discuss ways to improve activity? Want to suggest a cool bot?
Do it all here.
08-05-2018, 08:07 PM
There's a few problems I'd like to point out about the Discord server, along with going to revisit a couple topics people seem to have glossed over without really noticing. I'll try my best to sort them out.
Problem 1: Staff being "lazy" The staff here are doing their best to try and handle each and every situation, but as I pointed out here (a second time since Firefox crashed and I lost my post before I could click Post Reply), all of us have lives, including staff. Understand that not all staff members are going to be active 24/7, and they can't always be around to work on fixing the problems that arise in MFGG. Problem 2: Controversial Topics There seem to be some issues regarding what a controversial topic is and what isn't, so allow me to give my opinion on what I think. Politics, for example, can cause a lot of issues with some far-left and far-right users, and it can be a troublesome topic to handle. However, we won't be banning these kinds of topics forever, as that would just be an off thing to do. People want to talk about these topics sometimes, but the way I see it, as long as they keep it on a calm and serious basis, it should be fine. Now, that doesn't mean the same for all controversial items. Some of them are okay, but others are very not welcome to talk about. There are many problems that can not and will not be addressed in the MFGG Discord server, sometimes because users take offense problems, other times because they have nothing to do with MFGG in general. This is all my own speculation, though. Problem 3: Moderation Going back to the first problem on this list, many users accuse the staff of being lazy and not handing problems how they should be handled. That goes into the sub-topics of bans and etc., and in which case, the staff are doing their very best to get the job done. Not all offenses are the same, and they should not all be handled the same, either. If someone messes with another member on a minor scale, then it'll just be a small offense, but if it goes into a heavy topic for the member being attacked (let's say personal issues, for example), then the member will get a much bigger offense for the issue. The staff aren't being lazy, dumb, or whatever you want to call them, they're just handling it how they see fit. Problem 4: Current state of MFGG If I'm gonna be honest, MFGG isn't doing a bad job right now. Sure, there have been a few bumps in the road recently, but a lot of members seem to not be understanding that MFGG is trying its best to be a good community. I admit I've caused more than my fair share of problems here on the forums and on the Discord server, recently and in the past, but people have the ability to learn from their mistakes and improve. MFGG is improving more and more each day, it's not going down in flames like some users may think. Due to the wiki, Discord server troubles, and a few other factors that I can't think of right now, just know that MFGG will not stop for anything and that we're still going strong. I hope this clears anything up for anyone, but feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong, or if I should add to this in any way. Twitter: SonicKade2048
YouTube: SonicKade2048
08-07-2018, 06:02 PM
Alright, since no one else dares say it here I'll start off with the obvious:
The Discord is completely ridiculous. I have never, ever been part of a chat that has so many fights over practically nothing nearly every single day like this. It is baffling that this is even possible! By "practically nothing" I mean things that are so inconsequential I can't even begin to remember what they even are. This is truly, at its core, the main problem with the Discord. I'm not sure anyone who actively watches what goes on can disagree, but if they do, I'd be really interested in seeing what they have to say about it not being a problem somehow. I have a few other minor problems with the Discord that may or not be related that I'll air out while I'm here. First of all, its relationship with the forum I don't believe benefits it. There are some major differences between the forum and the Discord, of course, but it feels like the Discord just follows in the forum's footsteps. I think this is detrimental to both the forum and the Discord. Some channel names because they stick so closly to the forums confuse members about what goes in there- #dev-showcase is the biggest offended with someone suggesting we add a "#dev-discussion" channel every now and then because depsite the discord channel being for both, the forums different setup doesnt line up with the channel setup. I propose we rename every channel that has a forum equivalent, at the very least, to curb confusion. In addition, the Discord having the same staff as the forum I think is a problem too. Much like the wiki is pretty much independent from the forums, I think the Discod should go the same way and only have staff who are actively interested in participating and moderating it. I may have made sense to mirror the staff at one point, but I think with the activity level of the Discord it kind of needs to be treated as its own entity. Also #space-junk-galaxy just needs to go. While its an OK board on the forum, there's too much chaos in the regular channels, no need to have an additional one that encourages chaos. Secondly I don't really think it has a purpose. It just feels like it's there to uhh, copy Minus World I guess? MFGG has been doing a lot of following in Minus World's footsteps lately (I'm sure anyone who's been paying attention can easily list of a bunch of examples); there are a lot of good ideas on Minus World (many contributed by me, the Discord not being one of them LOL), but just doing it for the sake of it is pretty ridiculous. I don't really see the issues with having community-ran chats on the side if people are interested in that. I just feel like when I go to the Discord server it doesn't really do anything to justify its own existence. Thirdly, meta discussion. There's too much chat about MFGG itself in the #general and #off-topic channels especially and I think it'd be in our best interest to keep that regulated to #feedback or a dedicated #meta channel. I just don't think it's very appealing for someone to join a site's chat and see most of the general discussion be about the site (especially about moderation, that's very offputting!) itself. You don't join MFGG to talk about MFGG I don't think? People don't join YouTube to discuss YouTube layouts, people don't join reddit to talk about reddit, etc. People come here for mario fan games, I'd hope, and seeing healthy discussion about other topics are fine, but it just seems like some kind of weird cult when you join a site and it seems like its obsessed with itself. I'm not saying having meta discussion at all is bad! I think it's great and healthy to have it. Like most things though, it has its place, and everywhere on the Discord isn't it LOL. Meta discussion was one of the biggest issues with the old #mfggirc and part of why it became unofficial- we have multiple channels now we might as well take advantage of that and not repeat the mistakes of the past. Anyway, I have a few different solutions in mind to try and make the Discord work:
These are not comprehensive solutions, just a few ideas to get those brain cogs working so we can try and make the Discord a fun place to be.
Interested in web development? Check out Super Mario Web Development. Wahoo!
""We choose to go to the [Suggestions board] not because it's easy, but because it's hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win." - John F. Kennedy" - gothgirlgangblastermaster
08-08-2018, 02:44 PM
I agree with pretty much everything that was said except for the comparison to Minus World; plenty of forums, including our site affiliates, have their own dedicated Discord servers, and regardless of what happened in the past, MFGG should be no different. You can list comparisons to Minus World if you want, but pretty much none of the top staff are even on Minus World.
Second, note that I'm considering #feedback a meta-channel from here on out, and any discussion about MFGG that I'm watching, I will regulate to #feedback. I'm not sure how the other moderators feel about this, but I'll ask. Third, I'd like to note that we've actually discussed three out of the four points you've mentioned in the mod channel, and I think more discussion is necessary. Allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment and refute the points you brought up to give an idea of why they haven't been implemented yet, and why we're hesitant to do so. Quote: Anyway, I have a few different solutions in mind to try and make the Discord work:
I'll be upfront in saying this is not going to happen unless something absolutely drastic occurs. This is the last resort of last resorts to me. Quote:
While I personally believe we should be more liberal with channel locks, it's tough to justify them after the fact. It could cause a lot of mod in-fighting and more arguments if people start having a meta-argument about why the channel should or shouldn't have been locked. Considering we didn't set a precedent of saying "We can lock channels if things get out of hand" before, it's a little late and difficult to implement now. In the end, the decision to lock a chat is usually one that can't be discussed prior; it's just a kneejerk reaction to stop the entire flow in one moment. That means it comes down to one moderator with one opinion, and if there's even a shadow of disagreement over why the channel should've been locked or about if we should lock channels at all, that's going to give that moderator a hard time and potentially cause an equivalent to wiki edit-wars, but with channel permissions. Quote:
I agree we need to use the power of kicks more; they can certainly serve to cool someone off in a quick moment and have them return when they've thought things over. I could use a specific example to help that point, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to do that, so I'll refrain for now. We are also required to notify someone of why/when they've been kicked, and if that hasn't happened in certain instances before, then going forward know that that will not be the case. If they come back and start causing the same issues again, then our kick notice has given them a fair warning, and at that point I would be comfortable with a ban as well. However, there are potential issues that come from kicking people. It's hard to DM someone before they get kicked with a notice, because often Discord won't let you DM someone if you don't have servers in common with them. If someone is being belligerent and it's gotten to the point where we have to kick them for sure, that usually needs to be something done fast, and that's not always possible if we need to give them a notice first. There hasn't necessarily been a situation where this issue has come up, but it is why I can say for myself at least that I've been hesitant to kick people. Let's hope Discord implements kick messages. Quote:
We've actually talked about this a bunch of times, and Kirby's Adventure seems to like the idea a lot, but everyone is really hesitant to trust a bot with moderation powers. We do keep our own warn logs, and a bot would make that a little easier, but most of the staff don't really see much of a point in having a bot help out if we can do it ourselves. I think part of that reasoning does come from a place of ignorance, and I don't mean that offensively, I just mean that most of us aren't familar with these kinds of bots. I think there's merit to having a bot like Dyno, for example, but that's going to take some more discussion, some getting used to, a bit of planning, and a lot of trust. It's been mentioned that bots like Dyno can reapply the Muted role to people who leave and rejoin to get rid of it, like the raiders did, which has a lot of usefulness. Having a moderation bot will make it a lot easier to simply mute someone while we give them a warning/kick notice, or to just have them cool off if they're being unreasonable or something of that nature. Rest assured that we've discussed this, and we will continue to discuss it. Thank you to both Kirb and Mario, I appreciate you guys taking the time to give your opinions on how to make the Discord better. I'm on the MarioBoards, Minus World, and the Bell Tree Forums as rollerC if you wanna check me out.
08-08-2018, 03:07 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2018, 03:15 PM by Yakibomb.
Edit Reason: redunddancy MAX
)
EDIT: Didn't see rollerC's post, oh gosh. Sorry for this post, kind of redundant! I'll keep it anyway. Can ignore or delete, I'm ok with it.
Original post in spoiler, due to redundancy (been covered by the above post):
08-08-2018, 06:28 PM
I am voting absolutely not on any bots that handle stuff we can do. Mods should be making an effort to communicate to the members why they were kicked/banned and how long they are banned for.
I'm sorry, but I don't trust bots: -They're hosted off server by people we don't know -You never know who's collecting data using them and selling it off Mods should stand by their decisions anyways, anonymous moderator actions will cause more drama than it will solve. Because not only do people still complain about the actions but then you've added a "which mod did it" witch hunt element. and if we're not properly keeping track of it then we don't have a trustworthy means to hold people accountable.
08-08-2018, 09:40 PM
(08-08-2018, 03:07 PM)Yakibomb Wrote: "What if the MFGG Discord is shut down?" Losing forum members to something like Discord has always been a thing, only now MFGG doesn't have enough members to really sustain both without one or the other having a greater presence. Take all the new Smash announcements, I'm almost certain there's been chatter about that on the Discord, but not even a single post about it on the forums. MFGG as a forum is dying and the Discord isn't to blame really, without it we'd probably be no better off because people who prefer it would likely still not be interested in posting on the forums. We just don't have enough members overall to keep both feeling alive.
08-12-2018, 09:17 PM
My thoughts on the Discord group and how it fits in to the bigger picture:
When we first launched the official Discord group, we had a philosophy of "throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks." We didn't have a master plan for how it would look or how it would fit into our long-term plans. We just experimented with different ideas, and we kept them if they worked and changed them if they didn't. Moderating a fast-moving chat group is a lot different from moderating a forum. It's also a lot more difficult. In a forum, people tend to put more thought into their posts, and since forum users rarely respond immediately, people have a chance to collect their thoughts before things get too heated. In a chat group, there's a lot of rapid back-and-forth conversations, and it's a lot easier for arguments to break out. That's why we recently added a few chat mods so someone will be able to keep an eye on the Discord at every hour of the day. Is the Discord making MFGG a better place overall? I don't know. The Discord probably has helped attract some new members, but I think that large chat groups cannibalize the forum to a certain degree. On the other hand, MFGGers have been setting up big unofficial chat groups for many years, but those weren't as big as the current one since they were unofficial and weren't promoted much. The past couple of months have been unusually slow on the forums, and there's been an uptick in drama, so we'll be evaluating the quality of the conversation on Discord and how it affects the overall atmosphere. Course clear! You got a card.
08-13-2018, 07:11 AM
I, for one, actually like the MFGG Discord--in principle, at least. Often, using a forum to tell people about something you're working on, whether it be a game or artwork, requires a bit of confidence, because most people won't go out of their way to respond/give you critiques on your work on a forum. Instead, they'll just give you a 1-Up or something of that nature. To me, the Discord definitely has a useful purpose. It can be a great place for people with a similar interest--game-dev--to share what they're working on and get immediate feedback from someone who's online. The real-time nature of Discord has a lot of upsides specifically for this community, and if wielded well, our server has tons of potential.
Right now, it certainly has it's fair share of problems. But I'm strongly optimistic about the good Discord can do. I'm on the MarioBoards, Minus World, and the Bell Tree Forums as rollerC if you wanna check me out.
08-13-2018, 07:53 PM
The MFGG discord is super stressful and not very fun. Everyone is angry and the drama is spilling into related discord groups.
I don't like it.
08-13-2018, 08:31 PM
@rollerC Yeah, the immediacy of the Discord is one of its greatest strengths (and one of its great weaknesses if things get too heated). It's great when you want an immediate response, since there's a good number of users on at any given time. It's also great for voice chats - a fun thing we should do more often, even if I'm not known for saying much during them!
Course clear! You got a card.
08-13-2018, 09:45 PM
If people are overwhelmingly unsatisfied with the atmosphere of the Discord, then what can we do to resolve it? Issue is that you're gonna have some of these problems in any chat room due to the nature of instant, fast moving communication and we can't be online 24/7.
Do we just cut our losses and go back to forum only? I don't think so. We'd end up losing people not interested in the forum and there would be no gain on the forum either. Do we hire more moderators even though we already have issues with everyone getting on the same page? I think we'd better fix our current staff problems before we hire new ones... I really don't know what to do, I'll try to think up some more solutions while I finish up my move to Denver and get back to you. |
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