[ 17 posts ]  Reply to topicPost new topic 
Author Message
 [ca]
 Post subject: The Mathematical Behaviour of Mario Enemies
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:04 pm 
User avatar
son of Xereus
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
Does anyone know if there have been any efforts to document the programming of all the different baddies in the Mario universe?

Many of us are making Mario Fangames, and we reuse a lot of classic enemies, Koopas, Goombas, Boos, etc. Does everyone just come up with their own implementations of the behaviours we associate with these things?

Having a repository of this kind may be helpful!

Thoughts? :confused:

_________________
My Mario Sprites! :) | My HTML5 Engine Demo - Super Wario Bros. :cool:
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [ca]
 Post subject: Re: The Mathematical Behaviour of Mario Enemies
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:43 pm 
User avatar
Waifu Material
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
I remember a while back TMK posted this breakdown of SMB: http://themushroomkingdom.net/smb_breakdown.shtml

It doesn't really cover math but it does have enemy locations and some behaviors broken down fairly well.

_________________
My games | My twitter | My stream | Sprites Unlimited

Image
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [zz]
 Post subject: Re: The Mathematical Behaviour of Mario Enemies
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:03 am 
User avatar
Marle's my waifu
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
Considering how simple most Mario enemies' patterns are, I imagine that about 99% of them would be easy to replicate yourself. The most complex maths you're going to need is y = sin(x) for enemies that move in waves like Eeries.

If you want exact numbers, though, you could use a disassembly.

_________________
더 빠르게 더 빠르게
더 멋지게 더 멋지게
더 신나게 더 신나게
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: The Mathematical Behaviour of Mario Enemies
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:52 am 
User avatar
Always have a Shy-Guy in your avatar
Administrator
[A]
[S]
[W]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

It's pretty easy to recreate the majority of Mario enemies in GM or a Clickteam product (or whatever development environment you're using), but it's hard to get everything "perfect". I think Xander is looking for precise mathematical information on how Mario enemies behave. I believe I've seen information on this topic for Super Mario Bros. 3, but I can't immediately recall where I saw it. I know that the old Djrellik Engine used this kind of data to make its physics more accurate.

_________________
Course clear! You got a card.

Image

Want to help make Career Fantasy a reality? I'm still looking for sprite help and a few more compositions for the soundtrack. If you're interested, please shoot me a PM.
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [zz]
 Post subject: Re: The Mathematical Behaviour of Mario Enemies
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:57 am 
User avatar
Marle's my waifu
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
VinnyVideo wrote:
It's pretty easy to recreate the majority of Mario enemies in GM or a Clickteam product (or whatever development environment you're using), but it's hard to get everything "perfect". I think Xander is looking for precise mathematical information on how Mario enemies behave.

Well yeah then you use a disassembly like the ones I linked.

_________________
더 빠르게 더 빠르게
더 멋지게 더 멋지게
더 신나게 더 신나게
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [ca]
 Post subject: Re: The Mathematical Behaviour of Mario Enemies
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:26 am 
User avatar
son of Xereus
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
Thanks for the replies, everyone.

I agree that most of the behaviour is self-evident, so I did assume most people come up with their own formulas to represent enemy movement.

As Vinny says, I was curious if the mathematical information had ever been deduced and posted anywhere.

_________________
My Mario Sprites! :) | My HTML5 Engine Demo - Super Wario Bros. :cool:
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: The Mathematical Behaviour of Mario Enemies
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:51 am 
User avatar
Always have Jason Voorhees in your sig
Global Moderator
[T]
[M]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
I would love to see a website dedicated to this; breaking down the equations behind video game AI. Why doesn't it exist already??

_________________
Image

Image Image
Bibby Team | My Website
 
Top
Online 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [zz]
 Post subject: Re: The Mathematical Behaviour of Mario Enemies
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:00 am 
User avatar
Marle's my waifu
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
HylianDev wrote:
I would love to see a website dedicated to this; breaking down the equations behind video game AI. Why doesn't it exist already??

Probably because video game AI is really hard to make, and the people who are good at it are busy writing it while raking lods of emone.

_________________
더 빠르게 더 빠르게
더 멋지게 더 멋지게
더 신나게 더 신나게
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: The Mathematical Behaviour of Mario Enemies
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:27 pm 
User avatar
C# Programmer
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
uh

http://www.gdconf.com/
http://www.gdcvault.com/browse/?track_category=500

_________________
MFGG TKO (scrapped) - Animations
Image
"It feels that time is better spent on original creations" - Konjak
Focus on the performance, the idea, not the technical bits or details - Milt Kahl
 
Top
Offline 
 
 
 [tt]
 Post subject: Re: The Mathematical Behaviour of Mario Enemies
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:37 am 
User avatar
:D
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
I know Super Mario Bros is like, 40KB or something, and it's all asssembly code.
So many hacks have been made of it, there's bound to be some knowledge somewhere.

 
Top
Offline 
 
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: The Mathematical Behaviour of Mario Enemies
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:47 am 
User avatar
Always have Jason Voorhees in your sig
Global Moderator
[T]
[M]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
TheShyGuy wrote:

That's not really what I meant

GDC talks are 30-to-60 minute presentations with about 5 minutes of substance. I'm looking for charts and equations and stuff.

_________________
Image

Image Image
Bibby Team | My Website
 
Top
Online 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [tt]
 Post subject: Re: The Mathematical Behaviour of Mario Enemies
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:44 pm 
User avatar
:D
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
Someone disassembled all of Super Mario Bros into its code.
https://gist.github.com/1wErt3r/4048722
Good luck finding anything out though!

 
Top
Offline 
 
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: The Mathematical Behaviour of Mario Enemies
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:00 pm 
User avatar
C# Programmer
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
Charts and equations are still kinda vague, at least to me. Do you mean stuff like state machines, behaviour trees, pathfinding, etc? Or much more game specific AI like goomba, kooopa, or bob-bomb AI, etc?

_________________
MFGG TKO (scrapped) - Animations
Image
"It feels that time is better spent on original creations" - Konjak
Focus on the performance, the idea, not the technical bits or details - Milt Kahl
 
Top
Offline 
 
 
 [tt]
 Post subject: Re: The Mathematical Behaviour of Mario Enemies
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:00 pm 
User avatar
:D
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
I think it's code for how enemies work.
Like if Goombas are like
Move Left at X speed,
if hit a wall, move Right at X speed.

You can approximate movements in a fangame, but the real games have their own code.

 
Top
Offline 
 
 
 [br]
 Post subject: Re: The Mathematical Behaviour of Mario Enemies
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:16 pm 
User avatar
Not a bird
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
I notice a chunk of NPCs have programmed behaviours that I've never seen fully documented.
Hasn't anyone really done that already?

_________________
Please contact me for any broken links below.
Spoiler:

Spoiler:
 
Top
Offline 
 
 
 [ca]
 Post subject: Re: The Mathematical Behaviour of Mario Enemies
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:37 pm 
User avatar
son of Xereus
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
Parakarry wrote:
I think it's code for how enemies work.
Like if Goombas are like
Move Left at X speed,
if hit a wall, move Right at X speed.

You can approximate movements in a fangame, but the real games have their own code.

This. I'm just approximating, which is fine, but having the original code logic would be useful, I think.

_________________
My Mario Sprites! :) | My HTML5 Engine Demo - Super Wario Bros. :cool:
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: The Mathematical Behaviour of Mario Enemies
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:50 pm 
User avatar
Always have Jason Voorhees in your sig
Global Moderator
[T]
[M]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
TheShyGuy wrote:
Charts and equations are still kinda vague, at least to me. Do you mean stuff like state machines, behaviour trees, pathfinding, etc? Or much more game specific AI like goomba, kooopa, or bob-bomb AI, etc?

Like a flow chart or something. Something to detail exactly how the AI operates.

I've seen tables of enemy stats from Zelda 2, that was also extremely helpful to read. Stuff like that. I wish it was easy to find.

_________________
Image

Image Image
Bibby Team | My Website
 
Top
Online 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 [ 17 posts ]  Reply to topicPost new topic 


Who is online

Users browsing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group