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 Post subject: Re: main site revisions general
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:55 pm 
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I pitched the idea of fanart on the mainsite to TD a LONG LONG time ago and he hated the idea, and I have to admit I agree with him now. Rather than a fanart section on the mainsite, I think a better idea would be to highlight good works of art or sprites in news updates on the mainsite, just for something fun. Fanart really doesn't belong on the mainsite.

As for a 5-star rating, the idea was something like this:

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 Post subject: Re: main site revisions general
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:02 pm 
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you say "good works of art or sprites", and what separates a "good work of art" from fanart?

EDIT: to further elaborate on why i don't care for the 5 star rating system-

i think that separating a game's level of quality and it's fun factor is something we should try to do. i think it's just a no brainer. the 5-star system (or any numbered rating system) favors quality over "style" to put it as something more serious. i think whether or not you recommend a game and elaborating on why in a review is a much better system as it's more efficient and again, it promotes actually reading the review rather than just looking at the scores. you can recommend a game that isn't necessarily good but is instead important to the history of fangames meanwhile a numbered review doesn't have that same kind of flexibility.

just liking and disliking a game isn't the same- obviously dislike buttons are almost always a bad idea regardless of the context and linking the recommendation to a review gives it the justification to not be purely hateful. it makes reviews far more accessible and lets making more reviews be an easier task. another addition definitely worth adding is a user system for whether or not they found a review helpful, which lets the better, more thoughtful reviews be more prominent and the less involved and potentially biased or hateful reviews sink to the bottom. if this allows review influx to increase then we might be able to get by with a user-moderated system for reviews.

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 Post subject: Re: main site revisions general
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:48 pm 
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Mit wrote:
you say "good works of art or sprites", and what separates a "good work of art" from fanart?

EDIT: to further elaborate on why i don't care for the 5 star rating system-

i think that separating a game's level of quality and it's fun factor is something we should try to do. i think it's just a no brainer. the 5-star system (or any numbered rating system) favors quality over "style" to put it as something more serious. i think whether or not you recommend a game and elaborating on why in a review is a much better system as it's more efficient and again, it promotes actually reading the review rather than just looking at the scores. you can recommend a game that isn't necessarily good but is instead important to the history of fangames meanwhile a numbered review doesn't have that same kind of flexibility.

just liking and disliking a game isn't the same- obviously dislike buttons are almost always a bad idea regardless of the context and linking the recommendation to a review gives it the justification to not be purely hateful. it makes reviews far more accessible and lets making more reviews be an easier task. another addition definitely worth adding is a user system for whether or not they found a review helpful, which lets the better, more thoughtful reviews be more prominent and the less involved and potentially biased or hateful reviews sink to the bottom. if this allows review influx to increase then we might be able to get by with a user-moderated system for reviews.


Err nothing? Fanart is art? Dunno what you're trying to say. I mean it like:

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Art of the Week!
Here's an awesome picture that SuperGuyX82 posted on the forums [insert link to post here]


I also don't really get what you're trying to say with reviews either. 5 star reviews are as open to interpretation as any other system, but instead of the current system that ranks each section out of 10 and then gives a X/10 score overall, you simply write your review and rate it out of 5 depending how you found the game. Simple simple.

I fail to see how a simple LIKE/DISLIKE is any different, it just makes it a 1/2 instead of 1/2/3/4/5 which is worse in my opinion. And there are games I LIKE but I don't LOVE, which I'd much rather give a 3 star than a simple yes or no because there's more to it than that. Either way you'll have to read the review to see why the person gave the opinion they did.

Noting that a review is helpful is a good idea either way.

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 Post subject: Re: main site revisions general
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:09 pm 
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the idea isn't just that it's "LOVE" or "HATE" it's "should you play this or not". that's the goal of a review anyway, ultimately. i can guarantee you that all game review websites that give review numbers rarely have their reviews fully read (due in part to length) because it's infinitely easier to just scroll to the bottom of the page and see what it gets out of 10.

to show how it's handled on steam (examples taken from sonic CD's listing)
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my issue is people don't read reviews except for the most devoted users- and they're a universal minority. it's infinitely easier to check the numbers and read the little end quip and move on or at the very least skim the full review than it is to sit down and read each individual review. this sounds like a wasted effort to me. it's appreciated by some, yes, and this change isn't making the reviews change substantially or even go anywhere, but by using a less obvious and more broad "recommend or not" system it enforces the idea that "you should read the review to see WHY it's recommended" and not "this game got an 8/10! it sounds great!" without knowing anything about what's in it.

as for the art thing, why pick and choose select pieces of art to put in news updates of all things instead of just having a gallery for user submitted fanart? this just seems like a better idea. we could have a piece of art be selected every month as the "fanart of the month" or something and have that appear on the top of the page. i feel like fanart in general would be a great thing to integrate into the main site as with permission it could even be used to give the site some flair by integrating pieces into background art or banners to show "hey, we're a mario fan community, check this stuff out".

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 Post subject: Re: main site revisions general
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:48 pm 
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Also, and this one is for both main and forums, but for the love of ravioli, PLEASE let us upload our own images without using links. Please

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 Post subject: Re: main site revisions general
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:09 pm 
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Mit wrote:
my issue is people don't read reviews except for the most devoted users- and they're a universal minority. it's infinitely easier to check the numbers and read the little end quip and move on or at the very least skim the full review than it is to sit down and read each individual review. this sounds like a wasted effort to me. it's appreciated by some, yes, and this change isn't making the reviews change substantially or even go anywhere, but by using a less obvious and more broad "recommend or not" system it enforces the idea that "you should read the review to see WHY it's recommended" and not "this game got an 8/10! it sounds great!" without knowing anything about what's in it.


I don't read Steam reviews either, I just go "oh cool, it's overwhelmingly positive, I'll buy it" or "Oh it's got mixed reviews, that's a shame, better avoid it". Nothing will change in that regard, but I think for a site like ours, having reviews out of 5 gives a bit more leeway for people to express a view that's not totally black and white. I'm MUCH more likely to click on a game that's rated 3/5 than I am a game that's simply "good" or "bad". At the same time, i'd also much rather post a review that shows "this game is worth 3 out of 5, here's what could improve the score" than simply say "I can't recommend this game".

Also I think it's a GOOD thing to be able to scroll down to a TLDR summary and see a quick view of why the game is good or not, and a score that backs it up.

Mit wrote:
as for the art thing, why pick and choose select pieces of art to put in news updates of all things instead of just having a gallery for user submitted fanart? this just seems like a better idea. we could have a piece of art be selected every month as the "fanart of the month" or something and have that appear on the top of the page. i feel like fanart in general would be a great thing to integrate into the main site as with permission it could even be used to give the site some flair by integrating pieces into background art or banners to show "hey, we're a mario fan community, check this stuff out".


Because MFGG is a resource site and fanart isn't a resource, and posting stuff that involves the community is fun? I've been pushing for more ties between the forum and mainsite for years and years and little things like this would be a great way to bridge the gap, especially with MFGG3. I wouldn't be against an art section for art that could be freely used in fangames, but aside from that it has no place on the mainsite, forums only.

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 Post subject: Re: main site revisions general
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:42 pm 
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Kritter wrote:
Because MFGG is a resource site and fanart isn't a resource, and posting stuff that involves the community is fun? I've been pushing for more ties between the forum and mainsite for years and years and little things like this would be a great way to bridge the gap, especially with MFGG3. I wouldn't be against an art section for art that could be freely used in fangames, but aside from that it has no place on the mainsite, forums only.

i'm fairly certain that on MFGG3 the forums and the main site will be one in the same- so i'm not entirely sure how much this will hold up. the thing about plucking things off the forums is that you'd need to dig through art topics for respective users to find a piece to showcase, however with a gallery it simplifies things and just gives you a catch-all area to look at pieces from those who are likely already on the forums, but also those who primarily stay on the main site. there's a lot of users who stay on the main site and don't ever set foot on the forums, so something like this when odds are the forums will be already integrated into the main site seems like icing on the cake.

a gallery is also just way more accessible. it's, like i said, a gateway, if someone searches for mario art on google or something at a young age and finds MFGG, that's the hook. right now with the forums and main site being separated, yes a gallery is a stretch, but for MFGG3, we've been told countless times that there will be no need to build a bridge because it'll all be under one roof. a gallery is much more appealing to a younger mind and way easier to navigate.

on a vaguely related note, i think that MFGG3's full MO should be accessibility. rework as many things as necessary to make the MFGG experienced as streamlined as possible. even if it currently isn't a problem, i don't think anyone can deny that activity has been dwindling and i don't think anyone's really asked why. MFGG's got a lot of archaic website design choices that MFGG3 should aim to rectify. that's partially why i'm so gung-ho about everything i pluck from elsewhere and suggest, because if it works on this massively successful website and we know WHY it works on that massively successful website then we need to consider it strongly instead of "sticking to our guns", which are currently rusting (and i'm not calling the 5 star system this nor am i referring to anything in particular, i'm talking generally). even if it means shifting to a mario fan site over a mario fanGAMES site, whatever we can do to attract new audiences and stay relevant, we should.

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 Post subject: Re: main site revisions general
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:55 pm 
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MFGG has its niche as a fangames resource site dedicated to Mario, people aren't going to stop here looking for fanart, there's plenty of other far more popular websites that devote their niche to fanart or art in general. There's no good reason to add a fanart section to the mainsite. We have an arts board on the forum for that and I'd much rather see things like that kept to the community rather than the resource hub.

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 Post subject: Re: main site revisions general
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:25 am 
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Also, why not have more skins on the main website?

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 Post subject: Re: main site revisions general
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:37 am 
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I'd love to have a Codec Cyan mainsite

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 Post subject: Re: main site revisions general
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:03 am 
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More mainsite skins would be nice to have. If someone would like to work on a mainsite skin, that would be cool (although it may make more sense to wait until MFGG3 comes out, since the MFGG3 launch will require significant changes to the CSS).

Mit wrote:
rework as many things as necessary to make the MFGG experienced as streamlined as possible.

This is super-important. MFGG's current interface isn't horrible, but there's definitely room for improvement. Good UI/UX has been integral to the success of pretty much every popular Web site. It's super-important that we make it as easy as possible to find resources, register a new account, make a comment, or perform other typical use cases. Cut out clutter that people don't use much, and emphasize the parts of the site that people use frequently.

HD, when you work on prototypes for the revised mainsite, I highly recommend recruiting a few people to test the new interface in real life. Try to get a mix of technical and nontechnical folks with a range of ages/experience levels. Get them to create a new account, browse the site, and find different kinds of resources. See what aspects of the site they like, and pay close attention to anything they find frustrating or confusing. I may be able to help with this when the time comes.

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 Post subject: Re: main site revisions general
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:22 pm 
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VinnyVideo wrote:
More mainsite skins would be nice to have. If someone would like to work on a mainsite skin, that would be cool (although it may make more sense to wait until MFGG3 comes out, since the MFGG3 launch will require significant changes to the CSS).

[url="Mit"rework as many things as necessary to make the MFGG experienced as streamlined as possible.[/url]
This is super-important. MFGG's current interface isn't horrible, but there's definitely room for improvement. Good UI/UX has been integral to the success of pretty much every popular Web site. It's super-important that we make it as easy as possible to find resources, register a new account, make a comment, or perform other typical use cases. Cut out clutter that people don't use much, and emphasize the parts of the site that people use frequently.

HD, when you work on prototypes for the revised mainsite, I highly recommend recruiting a few people to test the new interface in real life. Try to get a mix of technical and nontechnical folks with a range of ages/experience levels. Get them to create a new account, browse the site, and find different kinds of resources. See what aspects of the site they like, and pay close attention to anything they find frustrating or confusing. I may be able to help with this when the time comes.

I can. Let me know the width and height of a skin, and I'll make one

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 Post subject: Re: main site revisions general
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:23 pm 
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I think a rom hack section could work for a website, since rom hacks can be considered fan games.

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 Post subject: Re: main site revisions general
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:55 pm 
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gonna give this old thing a bump

i think the main site's structure for organizing content should be completely reworked and split into 2 separate categories: custom works, and ripped works. you might be thinking that this is already how it works, and it kindof is, but the site's horribly unorganized and it's incredibly difficult to find exact things you want due to how submissions use categories rather than tags to organize content. you'll often find things that are completely unrelated to the game it's categorized under- only to find out that it's there in the first place because something in the sheet is from the game in question, even if it's in a completely different style

i've got 2 steps to a bigger solution: the first one is to completely separate custom and edited works from ripped works. having them all in the same place makes things incredibly messy and hard to dig through to find what you want. i propose having individual user galleries for custom/edited works ala dA to allow things to be more easily organized and browsed at a glance. ripped works will use a more streamlined archival setup, because there's a finite amount of resources that need to be ripped and there's no use being unorganized at all with them. this will also allow otherwise ""controversial"" projects like ex-lib to exist without getting in the way of anything else

the other step is to cut out categories wholesale, at the very least for custom/edited work, in favor of tags. as previously stated, there's presently no difference between something SMB3 styled and something from SMB3 in a completely unrelated style, and this can be rectified by using tags to better filter work. it'd make searching for specific things much easier, and if customs/edits are already separated from rips then even better

lets continue to see how we can spruce up the main site because it sure as hell needs it

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 Post subject: Re: main site revisions general
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:58 pm 
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I think Quality Control should have the power to add tags that the author has neglected. Lots of Mainsite submissions don't include certain character tags and game tags that they need (searching for Mario Maker graphics is hard).

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 Post subject: Re: main site revisions general
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:29 am 
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viewtopic.php?f=65&t=20586
Well this is why the janitors thread is here. Maybe that should be a general reporting tag issue thread.

 
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 Post subject: Re: main site revisions general
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:31 am 
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my point was that if we fix the way the main site is organized then we wouldn't really need a janitorial thread because the process of self-categorizing submissions would make more sense.

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