The ACTUAL Problem with MFGG

[Pedigree]

Here's the in-depth, point-by-point response to the OP.

I am unveiling the ugly part of MFGG. The part that nobody noticed, or everybody ignored.
The part that is too fundamental to truly fix, because doing so would, in many cases, be unfair, unreasonable, or otherwise unethical. An observant member of this community cannot blame any part of the administration or community for this platform's gradual decline in activity, because doing so misses the greater issues that keep cycling members out, and prevent fresh blood from cycling in.

A. MFGG goes through roller coaster periods of decline and increases of activity, iirc it's not a steady decline but you'll have to ask VinnyVideo for his statistics on that matter.
B. Members naturally move on over time due to a variety of reasons, the most prominent of which is growing out of Mario fangame development as a hobby.
C. We get some great, new members at a decent rate actually. GamerInGeorgia, for example, is active in all the events and contributes some great entries in all of them.

and as somebody who has spent a great amount of time exploring a diverse range of gaming communities, I can confidently assert that fangame developers are just about the worst breed of gamedevs out there.

Gosh, I hope this is hyperbole. If not, what are you doing hanging out in a fangaming community like MFGG? Besides, you kinda trail off without explaining this position clearly. Why are fangame developers the worst breed???

Typical game designers' creative process can be abstracted into two steps:
1) They consider what ideas they wish to express through their design.
2) They consider how they can efficiently construct a game design to propagate those ideas.

Fangamers, on the other hand, usually think with this logic:
1) They consider what ideas they wish to express through their design.
2) They consider how they can express those ideas within the design constraints of their source material.

A. You are definitely oversimplifying here and I feel like that's not doing your argument any favors. The creative process differs from person to person, not just what kind of game you're making.
B. Very rarely have I seen people work strictly within the constraints of the source material here, most of the projects I've seen use the basic Mario gameplay as a starting point and expand from there.

... because fangamers are extremely derivative. There are some exceptions (@SMBMaster99 is a blessing to Pokemon), but the vast majority are interested only in producing more of Mario. More of Pokemon. More of Zelda. They don't want to utilize our lovely interactive medium to express any design remarkably individual. They just want to use Super Mario Bros. as a platform to express their narrative ideas, or their aesthetic ideas, or occasionally their conventionally subversive ideas.

Have you considered fangame developers want to make more Mario games because they are passionate fans of the Mario franchise and have fun doing so?

Fangamers at large do not -- and I am convinced will never -- display this mentality.

I feel like you are arguing with yourself. Not only do you mention LangtonLion64's Super Mario Bros. Dimensions as an example of this mentality but you list a bunch of people below that seem to fit this mentality as well. Never is a long time, and you're not giving people enough credit with this claim.

Also I find this entire argument about "fangames that stick too close to the source material" to be very hypocritical, given you are working on a Super Mario Maker clone that rips off the GUI completely.

So, no matter how much exposure MFGG gets to the greater Nintendo and gaming fandoms, the majority of this community's target demographic (game developers) will find themselves dissuaded by their more derivative peers in most fangaming communities.

Or perhaps there are better platforms out there for those game developers to share their work than a niche Mario fangaming forum? I highly doubt many game developers would scoff at a community for allowing fangamers to post their work.

Fanfiction communities circumvent this issue almost entirely. Some people (those who know nothing) complain that fanfiction is similarly derivative, but it's derivative in a completely different way. Fanfiction holds the capacity to develop and subvert existing ideas, much like fangaming, but without copying the style of its source material. Super Mario Bros. Dimensions is not only about Mario, but it also looks and feels almost exactly like Super Mario Bros. 3. Metropolitan Man, despite being about Super Man, looks and feels wholly original. Most fanfiction is derived from source material beyond literature, so the medium fanfiction necessitates that the artist craft their own literary style. A My Little Pony fanfiction will never feel quite the same as Friendship is Magic, even when both pertain to the same subject. However, a Mario fangame of substantial scope on MFGG always feels very similar to Mario.

Some fans would argue that fanfiction and fanart that doesn't represent the source material well would bother them, don't you think? I have talked to people in various fandoms that avoid fanfiction outside of having a laugh at the author's expense.

I've also noticed that you are trying to make a point about game development but speaking as a player here instead.

Are you trying to tell me that the challenge of programming an authentic Mario clone has no appeal and won't attract any game developers? Starting with a base like Mario is a great place to start for fledgling game developers as well, wouldn't you say?

This community seems only proficient in finishing ambitious projects when they're 2D sidescrolling platformers with an emphasis on jumping to overcome enemies: Abducted Toad, Midas Machine, Psycho Waluigi, Toadette Strikes, Super Mario Bros. Dimensions, etc. Most of those are fine games, but they're all essentially Mario in terms of aesthetic and game design. There are deviations, but none too innovative ever come into fruition. And this community of fangamers is doing nothing to disincentivize itself. And it never will, because it sees no reason to challenge itself.

A. I have to question what you're saying here given that you've mentioned Psycho Waluigi as if it was just another Mario game. Is it just another Mario game because it's a 2D platformer and has some Mario characters? I ask because that's where the similarities end.
B. If you innovate to the point that a game is unrecognizable, wouldn't your effort be better spent working on an indie project with your own characters?

Who is MFGG currently comprised of? Which active members are influencing the whole? Certainly not I. Certainly no longer Mit, or Syaxamaphone, or Mors, or Neweegee, or Random.Nick... because all of us have better things going on. I don't know all of those people I listed very well, but I've conversed with each of them at least enough to know they all desire a meaningful role in the indie gaming industry. Because we have that ambition, we work towards it, and quickly mature beyond the rest of MFGG... and leave for greener and more challenging pastures. I'm only 18 years old, but nearly every game project I've worked on the past two years has been relatively original for this platform (the exception being Everything Mario Maker). My current focus, that I spend no less than 5 hours each day working on, is incomparably more innovative than what MFGG has so far produced (not that it's a particularly high bar).

You are so busy here patting yourself on the back and insulting the rest of the community that you forgot to make your point. Have some humility, for goodness sake and try not to be so rude.

Nobody has yet managed to be a professional fangame developer. UndyingNephalim is probably the closest, but even his Patreon is merely a secondary source of income. Yes, he is close to getting fangaming to be a full-time job, but he's definitely not there yet.

Professional fangame developer? As in, getting paid to make fangames? You are barking up the wrong tree and playing with fire if that's your goal for this community. The amount of work you'd need to put in to be able to make a fangame for profit without getting sued would be ridiculous, and there'd be no point since it would have to be unrecognizable as a fangame.

Fangaming has no ambition, because nobody who makes fangames has ambition.

Again with being pointlessly rude and making statements you can't prove?

Four years ago, MFGG challenged me -- as a child -- but I don't think even children can still benefit from exposure to this community anymore. Everybody who helped me mature has transcended, and the only remnants I see are those who have so far failed to transcend with them. Inevitably, they will either mature as game developers or just lose interest in their mere hobby altogether.

I'm happy you grew and have moved on with your life but you're not the last of the lifeblood of this community that you think you are.

MFGG just has nothing to offer new community members. Besides what I've already mentioned, modern MFGGers lack the expertise to properly critique others' content, and there aren't enough active members anymore to reliably recruit a team. There's an awesome compilation of graphics resource on the Mainsite, but they are tagged inconsistently, so finding useful assets is tedious. The community resources (members with expertise and an urge to teach) are depleted, and this site will never acquire new ones.

What does this community, which largely forgot how to draw pixel art (everybody with aesthetic expertise already left, except for StrikeForcer), won't encourage innovation (fangamers very rarely do), and fails to consistently produce innovative games offer prospective game developers? If you ask me: nothing.

MFGG is not a magical being with games and resources appearing out of thin air, it is a community driven platform. Here you are complaining that nobody is offering proper critique, working together, or teaching but will not lift a finger to do anything about it but complain. If there is nobody to fill these roles as you say, step up and prove that you're as hot a developer as you made sure to tell us you are. Otherwise, the way I see it, your complaints are useless and a waste of time.

If you're not willing to put in some effort for this community, how can you sit there and expect everyone else to listen to you telling them how lackluster they are by comparison?