08-05-2019, 12:07 PM
I think Stir's ban is justified.
Before you guys start to make up stuff about how much I hate Stir and how I'm biased, no I don't hate Stir, and I think he knows that (I hope lol). I don't really have much of a reason to hate Stir, almost all of my personal experiences with him were good and even when I had to ban him on Discord he took it really well. It's not really that easy for me to have strong opinions about people like that lol. I was also not around when the ban was given because of a game jam I eventually dropped of, but that doesn't matter much I guess.
Anyways, I think it's justified because, well, that signature was horrible. There no other way of putting it, putting the names of staff members you made leave especially when it's true for some of the staff members listed there, is a huge dick move. It doesn't deserve a year of ban on it's own yes, but you guys should remember that this was right after he got a 1 week ban. Let's look at the rules now.
So a 1 week ban is 7 points. To reach 10 points after that you need to do a "big offense", which is 3 points. And I'd consider that sig a big offense personally.
You might argue and now say that "oh the rules are too harsh" but I disagree with that too. If you break the rules twice in a row in a major way I think you do deserve a harsher punishment. We can't just ban Stir for a week forever.
As for just DMing him and telling him to delete his signature, um, that argument can be made to anything really. Like for an example someone says a mean thing, should we warn them or just DM and tell them to delete their message? That's just ridiculous, if you do something wrong you do need a proper warning or a punishment.
Just like Evil Yoshi said, I would've loved Stir to interact with us in a healthy way. It seems like he can be nice whenever he wants, and he definitely isn't a bad person overall. But I'm not going to give him a free pass because of that.
Now that I gave my opinions about Stir's ban I'll respond to the rest of the initial post.
I really don't think there's any former staff favoritism going on. A lot of the former staff here are treated like regular members really. You're free to prove me wrong though, and if that's really the case then yeah it should stop.
As for the threads that get make when a staff member leaves, it's something done out of respect. Like even if the staff member in question wasn't the best staff ever, they still did valuable work and they deserve a good send off for that. I don't think most people who respond to those threads aren't really crying over a certain staff member leaving anyway, as much as that might seem to be the case.
Stir gave feedback for the community, just like most other users here. Even if he was the only one giving feedback, this wouldn't mean that he would deserve special treatment from the staff. This has nothing to do with us not valuing feedback though, we do. If we didn't we wouldn't have this feedback forum, and we wouldn't try to respond every single thread made here. Same applies to the Discord. If it wasn't for the feedback the community had given us the site wouldn't have many of the features it had now, and we would be stuck with some outdated mentality from previous staff times.
How did you come to this conclusion? Again, we are reading all the suggestions, discussing them with you and when there's a conclusion we implement them. What else are we supposed to do?
The same question applies to the rest of the initial post too. You keep complaining that we don't value the community when we are trying our best. What is your solution to this? If you really want to help just give us that. Constant angry complaining about how much we suck without proposing solutions will just make the atmosphere more tense than it needs to be. Like, this is a site about Mario fangames, we don't need to be so angry about all this.
So yeah, I'm open to a calm discussion about this.
Before you guys start to make up stuff about how much I hate Stir and how I'm biased, no I don't hate Stir, and I think he knows that (I hope lol). I don't really have much of a reason to hate Stir, almost all of my personal experiences with him were good and even when I had to ban him on Discord he took it really well. It's not really that easy for me to have strong opinions about people like that lol. I was also not around when the ban was given because of a game jam I eventually dropped of, but that doesn't matter much I guess.
Anyways, I think it's justified because, well, that signature was horrible. There no other way of putting it, putting the names of staff members you made leave especially when it's true for some of the staff members listed there, is a huge dick move. It doesn't deserve a year of ban on it's own yes, but you guys should remember that this was right after he got a 1 week ban. Let's look at the rules now.
(12-04-2017, 04:58 PM)HylianDev Wrote:
- 50%: Suspended for 1 day
- 70%: Suspended for 1 week
- 90%: Suspended for 1 month
- 100%: Suspended for 1 year
Mods will assign warning points from ranges defined for the following 4 categories:
- Small offenses: 1 point
- Medium offenses: 1 - 2 points
- Big offenses: 2 - 3 points
- Super offenses: 7 - 10 points
The definition of small, medium, big, and super are up to the moderating team. The moderating team maintains a loose guide for which types of offenses fit into which category, and each mod will decide at the time of warning how many points to assign from within a given category.
So a 1 week ban is 7 points. To reach 10 points after that you need to do a "big offense", which is 3 points. And I'd consider that sig a big offense personally.
You might argue and now say that "oh the rules are too harsh" but I disagree with that too. If you break the rules twice in a row in a major way I think you do deserve a harsher punishment. We can't just ban Stir for a week forever.
As for just DMing him and telling him to delete his signature, um, that argument can be made to anything really. Like for an example someone says a mean thing, should we warn them or just DM and tell them to delete their message? That's just ridiculous, if you do something wrong you do need a proper warning or a punishment.
Just like Evil Yoshi said, I would've loved Stir to interact with us in a healthy way. It seems like he can be nice whenever he wants, and he definitely isn't a bad person overall. But I'm not going to give him a free pass because of that.
Now that I gave my opinions about Stir's ban I'll respond to the rest of the initial post.
(08-04-2019, 08:35 PM)Mario Wrote: It's utterly absurd how much worship former staff get here. They retire, they get a big thread with all everyone saying how much they appreciated their work and how much they'll miss them but is that enough? No! Seems like they need every member to kiss their feet constantly even after they've stepped down. I am not saying the work they did isn't valuable, but the work any other member does is valuable too. There will never be enough ego stroking for you guys.
I really don't think there's any former staff favoritism going on. A lot of the former staff here are treated like regular members really. You're free to prove me wrong though, and if that's really the case then yeah it should stop.
As for the threads that get make when a staff member leaves, it's something done out of respect. Like even if the staff member in question wasn't the best staff ever, they still did valuable work and they deserve a good send off for that. I don't think most people who respond to those threads aren't really crying over a certain staff member leaving anyway, as much as that might seem to be the case.
(08-04-2019, 08:35 PM)Mario Wrote: Stir has put countless hours of work into providing feedback to improve this community. He may not always approach things in the way you'd prefer, but if you're not able to put yourself in his shoes, then I don't think you really respect either the role you have as staff or the role members have as the community. Frustration dealing with staff making bad and harmful decisions is going to be natural- even if you don't see such decisions that way you need to understand that perspectives other than your own exist. It makes it feel like you guys don't value feedback. "Without this faith in people, dialogue is a farce which inevitably degenerates into paternalistic manipulation." - Paulo Freire, Pedagogy of the Oppressed.
Stir gave feedback for the community, just like most other users here. Even if he was the only one giving feedback, this wouldn't mean that he would deserve special treatment from the staff. This has nothing to do with us not valuing feedback though, we do. If we didn't we wouldn't have this feedback forum, and we wouldn't try to respond every single thread made here. Same applies to the Discord. If it wasn't for the feedback the community had given us the site wouldn't have many of the features it had now, and we would be stuck with some outdated mentality from previous staff times.
(08-04-2019, 08:35 PM)Mario Wrote: The community is essential to MFGG and too often it feels like the community's needs and input are shunned or unwanted. I honestly believe it's the staff that has been keeping MFGG back because of this attitude- it's the community that brought back all these old members and reconnecting with each other. Not the site or whatever else. Yet time and time again, community input is downplayed and downplayed and the staff are somehow baffled at frustration in the community. Maybe people would be more willing to speak out about issues they have if it didn't feel like you had to climb a mountain and have to put in a ton of defenses of your own character if you say anything.
How did you come to this conclusion? Again, we are reading all the suggestions, discussing them with you and when there's a conclusion we implement them. What else are we supposed to do?
The same question applies to the rest of the initial post too. You keep complaining that we don't value the community when we are trying our best. What is your solution to this? If you really want to help just give us that. Constant angry complaining about how much we suck without proposing solutions will just make the atmosphere more tense than it needs to be. Like, this is a site about Mario fangames, we don't need to be so angry about all this.
So yeah, I'm open to a calm discussion about this.