07-27-2021, 11:06 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2021, 11:38 PM by SonicKade2048. Edited 1 time in total.
Edit Reason: Added further comments to the staff portion of GeneralGuy's quote.
)
I'm still just a newbie from the 2015 phpBB time but I may as well leave my (lengthy) two cents:
I feel like the whole "forums "dying"" thing is a result of people finding Discord more flexible to use, mainly for their own reasons. It could be because they simply find it easier / better, it could be because it has features forums don't or are lacking in, who knows. I can't say whether forums as a whole will be truly "dead" because I can't predict the future. None of us can. Plus, MFGG itself is still a site-held community, and we STILL get daily submissions on the main site. It's likely that there's "inactivity" because the majority of people don't want to register or make an account on the forums / join the Discord server (which is completely fine, I might add). Why? Simply, again, for their own personal reasons; there's not a definitive answer or set of answers.
As a Discord frequenter myself, I can confirm that many people still hop into the Discord these days. Thanks to Mors's SM64 Plus project for example, we've had a slight spike in members (though SM64+ questions had to be redirected to Mors's own server). Members come in on their own accord as well, such as a recent member who hopped in after hearing about us from NCFC.
As for the heated arguments, there's not much going on by now, honestly. We've had an incident or two of members joining and being pretty rude, and -- this is just my POV -- some of the lighthearted joke comments still feel off-putting to read in the context of past events, since it feels like one of those "insulting you but also not" things. The latter is just me though, the server as a whole is really calm right now.
Admittedly I'm not the right person to talk about an article like this since I'm not knowledgeable on "is [program / service] bad or not". I'm also thinking there's a connection with the Tor issue since, after a quick Google search, Tor allows for Dark Web scavenging, so maybe Discord wants to be extra safe in that department. Just call it speculation on my end.
I will say, though, that we shouldn't be abandoning the Discord in favor of IRC or forums. We shouldn't abandon anything in favor of a "better" option for something like this, and I'll cite myself from earlier as an example:
If people prefer the Discord, then that's what they decide, no questions asked. You can say how bad something is, and there are times where the thing in question actually is bad, but for this chat application named Discord, that just falls down to preference and nothing else to me. Oh, and as a side note, Discord has an IRC-esque chat mode that can help those IRC lovers feel more at home.
First, I agree with the idea of adding new features to the main site (SMM level database), but keep in mind that the main site is still on its last leg right now. I'm not a staff member but I've heard countless times from others that the main site is incredibly unstable, so I'd say we should wait until the new version of it (LumaSMS / MFGG3) to come out.
Second, that might be because the staff are busy with other events for now and they're lacking people who can or have the time to do so. It's probably more simple than I'm thinking of it to be, so don't take my word for it, but we recently had the 20th anniversary time capsule (and more), before the 20th anniversary they were still trying to come up with a new MFGG logo, and now there's SAGE coming up in August. A couple staff members are game developers too, life can get in the way at any point, you never know what could happen... you get the idea. As well, keep in mind that we're lower on staff right now -- in two ways if you choose to look at it like that; Dustin, Cruise (formerly Blutorus), and a couple others I'm forgetting at the moment aren't in their positions anymore (I think they were Global Mods last I checked?). There's also the lack of activity from others like Langton and Techokami, as they don't post nearly as often as other members (heck, Techokami hasn't posted since 2019...!).
To not leave this on a bad note, Mors, Despair, SilverVortex, and the rest of the staff potentially involved with the set-ups for events have still done an excellent job. As well, sorry if it sounds like generalization, but I believe that many other staff members so far have made pretty great contributions to keeping MFGG chugging along. I'm still excited for when LumaSMS is complete, though that's likely farther than I anticipate.
...and, for that SMM idea, might I also suggest adding a SMM sheets section since those are still popular on the main site? They get mixed in with the other sheets easily and there's the issue with repeating tiles in a ton of them since they copy the tSR layout. Just a small idea I remembered.
I believe everything else I could say has been said by others by now. Might update this post accordingly.
With that being said, have a great day.
~SK
(07-27-2021, 05:07 PM)King Piranha Plant Wrote: Forums didn't die. This inactivity is an MFGG specific issue. It could easily be brought back to life if we keep posting, talk more about fangames and give our creative people feedback. Especially if people on the Discord post on the forums more. And I know I'm part of the problem, so this post is somewhat hypocritical - I disappear a lot and should contribute more. But I think everyone, including me, needs a reminder of this.
(07-27-2021, 08:37 PM)King Piranha Plant Wrote: My point when I say forums aren't dying, is more in response to how people usually talk about MFGG's inactivity. I hear a lot of people on here just says things like "well Discord has replaced forums, forums are a thing of the past" but clearly that's not true when you look at Super Mario Boards or SMW Central. MFGG seems a bit unique in how dead it is, considering people are still making fangames, and MFGG forums were one of the notably bustling forums of the nostalgic internet.
Like, saying "MSN Messenger is dead" would be an accurate statement, but saying "forums are dead" isn't really true. Forums still are used by a lot of people. Not as popular as they used to be, but not dead.
I feel like the whole "forums "dying"" thing is a result of people finding Discord more flexible to use, mainly for their own reasons. It could be because they simply find it easier / better, it could be because it has features forums don't or are lacking in, who knows. I can't say whether forums as a whole will be truly "dead" because I can't predict the future. None of us can. Plus, MFGG itself is still a site-held community, and we STILL get daily submissions on the main site. It's likely that there's "inactivity" because the majority of people don't want to register or make an account on the forums / join the Discord server (which is completely fine, I might add). Why? Simply, again, for their own personal reasons; there's not a definitive answer or set of answers.
(07-27-2021, 08:10 PM)Vitiman Wrote: The forums you linked to... communities like Mario Boards or the Bell Tree Forums, they seem like fairly thriving places! But do they have the same history as MFGG? I know you've brought up that our community's troubled past is behind us, but I'm not as convinced. Over the last few years, we've still managed to have some pretty heated arguments, resignations, spiteful community-offshoots... things that you would hope would be relics of the past. In my last years checking the MFGG forums, I saw a community that was slowly dwindling and the only diehards for a time where people who did not really seem happy being around here. I think most of the average people frequent the Discord server these days. I wouldn't know, I'm not really in there.
As a Discord frequenter myself, I can confirm that many people still hop into the Discord these days. Thanks to Mors's SM64 Plus project for example, we've had a slight spike in members (though SM64+ questions had to be redirected to Mors's own server). Members come in on their own accord as well, such as a recent member who hopped in after hearing about us from NCFC.
As for the heated arguments, there's not much going on by now, honestly. We've had an incident or two of members joining and being pretty rude, and -- this is just my POV -- some of the lighthearted joke comments still feel off-putting to read in the context of past events, since it feels like one of those "insulting you but also not" things. The latter is just me though, the server as a whole is really calm right now.
(07-27-2021, 09:14 PM)Q-Nova Wrote: [...] As long as our staff members are good (in which they are), the bad people can be blocked off and a lot of good people can come in! I think people should realize that if there's something you can do to get activity going, usually you can do that right away! [...] There are many reasons why it might be better to abandon Discord and go back to either IRC or good ol' forums and this article explains those reasons:
https://stallman.org/discord.html
Who knows, maybe that link alone will give the forums a huge boost in activity!
Admittedly I'm not the right person to talk about an article like this since I'm not knowledgeable on "is [program / service] bad or not". I'm also thinking there's a connection with the Tor issue since, after a quick Google search, Tor allows for Dark Web scavenging, so maybe Discord wants to be extra safe in that department. Just call it speculation on my end.
I will say, though, that we shouldn't be abandoning the Discord in favor of IRC or forums. We shouldn't abandon anything in favor of a "better" option for something like this, and I'll cite myself from earlier as an example:
Quote:
I feel like the whole "forums "dying"" thing is a result of people finding Discord more flexible to use, mainly for their own reasons.
If people prefer the Discord, then that's what they decide, no questions asked. You can say how bad something is, and there are times where the thing in question actually is bad, but for this chat application named Discord, that just falls down to preference and nothing else to me. Oh, and as a side note, Discord has an IRC-esque chat mode that can help those IRC lovers feel more at home.
(07-27-2021, 09:48 PM)GeneralGuy Wrote: [...] Making Mario fangames is a niche interest, so you want things to be as inclusive and accessible as possible if you want a lot of activity. Speaking of niche, MFGG failed to capitalize on expanding our growth by not including ROM hacks and non-Mario fangames sooner. In fact, we still haven't included a Super Mario Maker level database on the main site, A huge missed opportunity that would have skyrocketed activity here and introduce that demographic to fangames, which gives them far more creative control and customization than a level editor.
Another thing is that nothing fun happens here anymore. There hasn't been any Sprite, Drawing or Minigame competition here in ages, and the new admins don't do any fun stuff anymore like randomly changing the forum skin and embedding music. Coins have absolutely no use, so there's not much incentive to earn them by doing the things that would make the forum more active. There needs to be an appealing incentive and exclusive reason to use the forums over something else.
First, I agree with the idea of adding new features to the main site (SMM level database), but keep in mind that the main site is still on its last leg right now. I'm not a staff member but I've heard countless times from others that the main site is incredibly unstable, so I'd say we should wait until the new version of it (LumaSMS / MFGG3) to come out.
Second, that might be because the staff are busy with other events for now and they're lacking people who can or have the time to do so. It's probably more simple than I'm thinking of it to be, so don't take my word for it, but we recently had the 20th anniversary time capsule (and more), before the 20th anniversary they were still trying to come up with a new MFGG logo, and now there's SAGE coming up in August. A couple staff members are game developers too, life can get in the way at any point, you never know what could happen... you get the idea. As well, keep in mind that we're lower on staff right now -- in two ways if you choose to look at it like that; Dustin, Cruise (formerly Blutorus), and a couple others I'm forgetting at the moment aren't in their positions anymore (I think they were Global Mods last I checked?). There's also the lack of activity from others like Langton and Techokami, as they don't post nearly as often as other members (heck, Techokami hasn't posted since 2019...!).
To not leave this on a bad note, Mors, Despair, SilverVortex, and the rest of the staff potentially involved with the set-ups for events have still done an excellent job. As well, sorry if it sounds like generalization, but I believe that many other staff members so far have made pretty great contributions to keeping MFGG chugging along. I'm still excited for when LumaSMS is complete, though that's likely farther than I anticipate.
...and, for that SMM idea, might I also suggest adding a SMM sheets section since those are still popular on the main site? They get mixed in with the other sheets easily and there's the issue with repeating tiles in a ton of them since they copy the tSR layout. Just a small idea I remembered.
I believe everything else I could say has been said by others by now. Might update this post accordingly.
With that being said, have a great day.
~SK
Twitter: SonicKade2048
YouTube: SonicKade2048
YouTube: SonicKade2048